Today it's Amnesty Internation on Woman's Hour to discuss the Supreme Court judgment

Stephanie Davis Arai of Transgender Trend, who has received thousands of emails from worried parents and children, has said she has yet to see a child who doesn't want to transition either because of past sexual trauma, homophobia, or they are autistic.

We know the Tavistock whistleblower said they were 'transing away the gay'. We know that autism is massively over represented amongst trans people. It's not much of a leap to realise that this is being marketed as a solution for a whole slew of problems.

It's fucking cynical. And it's actually disguising all the problems. Deliberately.

Adult transitioners need 'trans children' to justify their adult status.

Spot on. I always remember something I read or heard from Dr Az Hakeem who said he didn’t believe gender dysphoria was a MH condition in its own right but rather a symptom of something else. Everything I see, hear or read from trans people themselves only confirms this belief for me. It is well documented at this point that there are numerous co-morbidities and contexts which go along with being ‘trans’ in all its different flavours. Autism, depression, anxiety, OCD, eating disorders, trauma, internalised homophobia, body dysmorphia, and of course paraphilias. There is ALWAYS something else going on which is what makes all the hormonal and surgical treatments so horrifying. This approach should surely be an absolute last resort.

You haven't provided a response though, just words of no substance. Stealng women's language? I am a women. Moreover, this is pathetic. I feel like I'm back on the school playground. I've hardly ever posted on Mumsnet in my life but my God, what an eye opener. It's not a nice place to be.

My ex (my children's Dad) brought both his daughters from the age of five onwards. He didn't really dissuade anything feminine, but dolls, gendered toys / make up (or anything that would be associated with gender stereotypes) were never a feature in the household. My ex is very alternative, as is the mother of my ex's two daughters (she is not what broader / traditional society would consider feminine). My ex and the daughter in question's mum separated, which was very difficult and included dv.Once I came into the picture, the daughter in question was ten, and I lived with her for five years. She (now identifies as he) was always very shy and withdrawn and at times, was treated fairly harshly by my ex. Me and my ex then separated after having two children so there was more upheval. Looking back I always knew there was something there. It's not been easy for my ex and he has found it extremely difficult to navigate (his other daughter who is a few years younger also came out as gay). My ex stil can't bring himself to call his daughter a 'he', or even say the word 'trans'. The struggle is palpable when I have discussed it with him. His daughter (now going by he) was very poorly but is now doing better and is in a relationship with a woman. The broader point I'm probably making is that my ex's daughters had no control over how they were brought up (the same as everyone). It's clearly influenced them, but that part of their life / upbringing, or the impact it has had on them can never be eradicated. She (now he) is amazing with my children (who aren't aware of anything different or had anything explained to them yet) and was before they decided to start identifying as 'he'. Sorry, long post I know. I still think women'd spaces should be protected but I think the situation that I have been exposed to has allowed me to empathize with others, as I could not help thinking how I would attempt to navigate or cope of one of my children even expressed that they thought they might be trans.

Jen, you must know that coming out as trans isn't a process of self actualisation, but a reaction to circumstances.

There's no such thing as being born in the wrong body. It doesn't exist.

And identifying as the opposite sex is a solution to a myriad of issues.

Past sexual trauma, confusion through being neurodivergent, being same-sex attracted and feeling uncomfortable with it, a reaction maybe to very strong stereotyping as a child, etc.

It isn't a thing by itself, it's a solution to something else.

i'm not saying it wouldn't sometimes work. But as the person will be forever battling against reality, it's probably not a long-term solution.

But from a feminist point of view, the thing to do is to address the underlying issue, not 'being trans' as a solution to it.

Addressing the issue of past sexual trauma, or strict stereotyping, or homophobia, internal or external, etc.

This is why you will see push back on here against the very concept of being transgender.

That is utterly appalling - truly stomach-churning. There really are no depths to which they won't sink. 😡

Amnesty Int. support full decriminalisation of sex work?

Yes they do and you can add The WHO, Human Rights Watch, Anti-Slavery Int, Global Alliance against Traffic in Women, UNAIDS, Freedom Utd, Global Alliance Against Traffic in Women, HIV Scotland, STOPAIDS, the Royal College of Nurses and sex worker orgs amongst others.

In 2022, Belgium passed decriminalisation becoming the first European country to do so.

decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/

Don't know why the image doesn't show.
It is of two clasped rainbow-coloured hands, with the message:

"What's more difficult?
Accepting your child for who they are or burying them because you couldn't?"

There really are no words for people who put this kind of thing out there - who torture parents like this and increase the risk of children killing themselves.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/amnesty-can-no-longer-claim-defend-human-rights-if-it-backs-decriminalising

Just putting this here, it's from a decade ago but is a reminder that Amnesty has been promoting men's interests over women's for a long time.

I'm not interested. This thread is one of the most toxic things I've come across in a long time. Have a good day.

Do you recall the poster who attempted to use his GCSE or A level biology to argue with bowlofbabelfish about genetics?

A thing of beauty. Now missing in the great MN reorganisation. (Bowl was Nobel Prize adjacent as a genetics researcher. )

Do you recall the poster who attempted to use his GCSE or A level biology to argue with bowlofbabelfish about genetics?

A thing of beauty. Now missing in the great MN reorganisation. (Bowl was Nobel Prize adjacent as a genetics researcher. )

There is also Dr Riittakerttu Kaltiala
the Finnish specialist in adolescent gender medicine.

She robustly refutes the ‘better a trans child than a dead child trope’. She was a speaker at a symposium in the U.K. last year if I have remembered correctly.

This article in The Tablet explains at some length why she refutes the trans suicide idea (that without affirmation and transition a child will kill themselves).It was the first I clicked on but there are all sorts of articles.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/finland-youth-gender-medicine

Jen, you must know that coming out as trans isn't a process of self actualisation, but a reaction to circumstances.

There's no such thing as being born in the wrong body. It doesn't exist.

And identifying as the opposite sex is a solution to a myriad of issues.

Past sexual trauma, confusion through being neurodivergent, being same-sex attracted and feeling uncomfortable with it, a reaction maybe to very strong stereotyping as a child, etc.

It isn't a thing by itself, it's a solution to something else.

i'm not saying it wouldn't sometimes work. But as the person will be forever battling against reality, it's probably not a long-term solution.

But from a feminist point of view, the thing to do is to address the underlying issue, not 'being trans' as a solution to it.

Addressing the issue of past sexual trauma, or strict stereotyping, or homophobia, internal or external, etc.

This is why you will see push back on here against the very concept of being transgender.

Well, that was entirely predictable, always, always the hyperbole and the dramatic flounce.

I volunteer for a dv charity. I'm.an advocate for women's rights. I believe women's spaces should be protected. But after witnessing my ex's child, who I lived with for five years, come out as trans and all the pain and confusion it has caused, it has broadened my perspective.

One thing I noticed about this interview, (and which I think is a general, deliberate tactic to try and muddy the waters of the SC ruling etc) is to say that not allowing transwomen to use women’s services is discrimination under the EA2010, without clarifying which protected characteristic applies. Having protection based on the characteristic of being trans is not the same as having protection based on the protected characteristic of sex. Which is exactly why they are not allowed to use women’s service.
They just lump it all together in a vague ‘you can’t discriminate under the EA2010’ and hope no one notices.

The irony is, you're on here, at 10.15 replying to me while allegedly that you support women's rights, while speaking to me, a woman, like utter crp and simultaneously talking the pss about a young person wanting to take their life.

This is the same emotional manipulation script we constantly hear from transactivists: “give us what we want or we will kill ourselves”. Though strangely enough Stonewall counted the partner of a trans person telling a trans person they were being made suicidal by the trans persons behaviour as domestic abuse of the trans person. But consistency and logic are not their forte.

I volunteer for a dv charity. I'm.an advocate for women's rights. I believe women's spaces should be protected. But after witnessing my ex's child, who I lived with for five years, come out as trans and all the pain and confusion it has caused, it has broadened my perspective.

This is the most unintentionally ironic post I think I’ve ever read on here 😂. I’m surprised you don’t have more self awareness of how anti women your posts come
across, what with your first class degree n all. As long your trans mates are ok sod the rest of us.

As it happens I got a first too, and post grad qualifications besides. Only I don’t usually raise them to patronise other posters. Because I’m not a twat.

My ex (my children's Dad) brought both his daughters from the age of five onwards. He didn't really dissuade anything feminine, but dolls, gendered toys / make up (or anything that would be associated with gender stereotypes) were never a feature in the household. My ex is very alternative, as is the mother of my ex's two daughters (she is not what broader / traditional society would consider feminine). My ex and the daughter in question's mum separated, which was very difficult and included dv.Once I came into the picture, the daughter in question was ten, and I lived with her for five years. She (now identifies as he) was always very shy and withdrawn and at times, was treated fairly harshly by my ex. Me and my ex then separated after having two children so there was more upheval. Looking back I always knew there was something there. It's not been easy for my ex and he has found it extremely difficult to navigate (his other daughter who is a few years younger also came out as gay). My ex stil can't bring himself to call his daughter a 'he', or even say the word 'trans'. The struggle is palpable when I have discussed it with him. His daughter (now going by he) was very poorly but is now doing better and is in a relationship with a woman. The broader point I'm probably making is that my ex's daughters had no control over how they were brought up (the same as everyone). It's clearly influenced them, but that part of their life / upbringing, or the impact it has had on them can never be eradicated. She (now he) is amazing with my children (who aren't aware of anything different or had anything explained to them yet) and was before they decided to start identifying as 'he'. Sorry, long post I know. I still think women'd spaces should be protected but I think the situation that I have been exposed to has allowed me to empathize with others, as I could not help thinking how I would attempt to navigate or cope of one of my children even expressed that they thought they might be trans.