We are sorry if you are struggling with this news...

And yet the common refrain on Reddit is that we want to eradicate them from the world (not just from being able to function in a normal life).

Such DARVO, very narcissism.

The sensible and actually Kind response to a female child who refuses to put on a dress, or a male child who wants to wear a dress, is to say "That's absolutely fine, because clothes are clothes, and you can have whatever interests and hobbies you like."

Exclaiming "By golly, if you don't adhere to current sexist stereotypes in dress and behaviour, you are a problem and your sex must be wrong, let's subject you to a lifetime of medicalisation!" is Not Kind, however much it makes you enjoy polishing your Righteous halo.

I’m so glad I found this thread. My workplace EDI’s group put out the most ridiculously biased statement on the ruling last week. And while I’m pretty sure some of my colleagues are gender critical I’m not 100% sure so can’t vent to them!

Paragraph after paragraph of how appalled the EDI group was with the ruling, the awful effects it will have on trans people, how we wholeheartedly support the trans community etc. Followed by a long list of links for anyone ‘affected’ about the ruling. Including the usual suspects like Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence.

There wasn’t a hint of acknowledgment that not everyone will disagree with the ruling, or even any mention of women. It’s crazy how a group purporting to represent EDI perspectives has such a massive blind spot, and such a laser focus on all things trans that any other views, or the bigger picture, is completely lost.

@minnienono Not wanting to put on a dress at 2 has nothing to do with identifying as 'trans'.

Many children don't like the impracticality of a dress, others don't like the sensory aspects of it, still others don't like the set of cultural expectations that comes with gendered clothing.

The problem is cultural gendered expectations.
The problem is lack of acceptance of gay relationships within many cultural groups.
The problem is lack of mental health services for traumatised young people or those with emerging mental health issues.
The problem is lack of understanding around neurodivergence and their often rigid thinking patterns/ attempts to belong and fit in in a world that rejects them
The problem is men expecting the world to revolve around them and their desires and co-opting women and children to achieve that.

I haven't met anyone 'trans' because you cannot change sex, it is not humanly possible. I have met young people and adults that identify that way, but it is clear that they have one of the issue I describe above.

The other thing is no one asked women. Hey do you mind if we put men in your changing rooms, prison cells and sports?

It is frustrating to see the responses but I’m so relieved it went the way it did.

Kindly, many of us grew up as the girls who didn’t want to wear dresses - thankfully we weren’t brainwashed with the nonsensical idea that a girl not wanting to wear a dress is somehow in the wrong-sex body. She’s just a girl who’s not keen on dresses!

I’m guessing you’re new to this board, @minnienono, else you’d know that we are very aware of all of that and have been discussing and advocating exactly the sorts of things you suggest for many years.

Lots of us know people who have adopted trans identities: either because their own children have done so; or their husband has done so after years of cross dressing (as you mention); because they have friends or other family members who are are trans identified; because they work in teaching or the mental halth professions etc...or simply because they frequently see and come across cross dressing men in their local neighbourhoods frequently. And sometimes young women with beards.

There is no such thing as 'trans' other than it being a way to frame one's cross dressing proclivities, or to frame a discomfort with the expectations of one's sex; for some to frame dysphoria. We are all human beings, either male or female, struggling with the conditions of our lives.

Since the madness really took hold, it has always been obvious that third spaces and categories were the solution...and that is the most likely outcome now

And on the thread topic. I'd note that the general sentiment towards women when TRAs were on the up was "enjoy your erasure". Has that been said to transwomen anywhere? No? Hmm be kind really does only extend one way.

Not sure why you're acting like this is a novel idea. Women have been proposing third spaces and mixed sex sports for years (in addition to single sex provisions obviously). It has been loudly shouted down as a transohobic and bigoted idea.

“I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses”

Funnily enough, I do know a young woman who did exactly that. I made it very clear to her that she had the right to do that and protected her from anyone who tried to argue otherwise.

I let her know that if she was bullied, it was the bullies who were assholes and not her.

From the age when the discussion took an occasional turn towards future partners, I made it clear to all my children that whatever sex the partner they chose was, that was entirely fine with me.

She is now a butch lesbian with no concerns about who she is. Homophobia in homes and in society has a lot to answer for when young people learn to hate themselves so much that they feel that surgery and medication might make them feel better.

I feel it is a lie that is going to have horrific long-term effects on the poor young women (and going gay men) who buy into it. Much better if they could have learned to love themselves as they were.

Yeah, ‘As I two year old I would only wear dresses and by 14 I was wearing my sister’s underwear in secret’. We’ve all heard that. And we all know the word for it, but don’t want our posts reported.

Gosh, if only someone had thought of third spaces and open categories sooner. We could have avoided all this unpleasantness.

Not sure, but it might be this one…

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5330379-dundee-uni-whistleblower?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I’m guessing none of your properly know a genuine trans person, someone who at age 2 refused to put on dresses? F-M in this case obviously. Not all trans people have decided later in life to inconvenience women which seems to be the mantra here, some knew they were different before they had the language skills to explain and 20 years before the current “boom”. We need to be able to offer dignity to everyone, to ensure that natal women are not disadvantaged by this but also that genuine trans people (either direction) are not unduly excluded either. So open or mixed sports would be a good example (triathlon have brought this in), larger settings to have a mix of toilets to suit all, changing rooms likewise remembering that families often need mixed changing too, that where appropriate sex is used a determining factor for services but these are limited to strictly necessary (which in life is not many things let’s face it)

Can someone please link to the Dundee Uni thread?

The senior women I talked to in the pub were of the “ffs no one’s bothered about women are they” which I was relieved about.

“Where the fuck were they (excuse my French) when women were shoved to one side to make way for men? Were they apologising to women? Were they issuing statements of support? Were they saying they would do all they could to meet our needs?”

Transactivists carefully avoided all mention of the fact that they were stealing women’s rights. Initially this was done by absolute stealth, then later via no debate. They also set about vilifying women who did object. That it was so easy for them to do that does speak volumes about ongoing ageism and misogyny.

It’s been a very clever campaign, where despite all their advantages, we are still winning. Many people don’t recognize narcissistic abuse on a small scale. They are even less likely to see it when done on a grand scale, as here. Those supporting all this are the equivalent of flying monkeys. There are always plenty of them, willing to see the best in the male abuser and the worst in the woman whose world he has torn apart.

It is frustrating, but all we can do is keep going.

I came across a LinkedIn post yesterday from someone I know, smugly virtue signalling about how government needed to legislate now to deal with this terribly complicated situation and not hide behind the UKSC judgment. I was quite disappointed with the people who 'liked' it, one of whom I am talking to about a job ... I was so tempted to ask him what it was he thought needed to be done specifically but LinkedIn is not the place for it.

Same. Met with eye rolls and tolerance. My kids call them “the they / thems”. Surely any teenage movement fervently embraced by teachers is dead in the water.

The good news is that being ‘trans’ at my daughter’s school is becoming unfashionable so hopefully the younger generation are seeing sense.

I have a couple of friends still posting tripe on socials about it. Women who should know better.

I corrected obvious errors- the sex is a spectrum graphic- but haven’t debated as such because the tone makes it clear no one is listening.

Their sense of self is wholly formed on being more empathic than the ordinary girls.

Are older women going along with it? Thankfully all my friends and family have revealed themselves as GC which is a relief. We late 40s / early 50s. Even my 16 year old is GC now.

I’m currently seething at an article/blog piece written by our owner talking about “that difficult subject” of the SC ruling. All about trans. Nothing about women. He’s totally clueless. I feel like telling him but I quite like my job otherwise.

I've never understood this. It's almost as if someone said "well, they're a minority" and women throughout the world have been like "oh, a minority? Oh therefore they need our support!".
But they haven't bothered to find out who's actually losing out from this minority!