Cisgender lesbian forcibly removed from toilets by male security after being wrongly accused of being a man

Hi Boiled.

Tell me please, on being challenged, did you ever lift your shirt to display your breasts?

Any other women here done that?

Are the women who do this some odd kind of exhibitionists? It seems more likely a man who’s grown oestrogen moobs would do this. They seem to quite often, including in inappropriate situations like visiting The White House.

It is impossible to tell if a person is a man or a woman by looking at them - obviously.
Masculine/androgynous cis women are now in a position where they will have to ‘prove’ that they are cis women. What will they have to so to prove this and who/m will judge them?
This entire circus show is detracting everyone from the very real issues cis/trans women and trans men face.

Trump's America. One could say they are just as "gender critical" as Britain is.

What are we supposed to say? It is the fault of those who have campaigned for men to be allowed in women's spaces that this happens more now, not us on here.

I spent years getting mistaken for a bloke at work. Do you know how much it bothered me?

Not at all. As soon as I corrected someone we would continue with our day.

And for the umpteenth time men cleaning toilets use a sign that says 'man cleaning toilets' on it, And I've had a male cleaner quite happily leave until the space is empty before now. Plus the majority have no issue with transmen as they are women.

If those transmen have taken drugs and had surgery that changes their appearance so much they cause women in single sex spaces to be alarmed then again what's that got to do with the women on here? Those transmen may feel happier if they use multi sex toilets.

Stats here - seems that the most vulnerable group ever to have walked the earth are not quite as vulnerable as they’d like everyone to believe sex-matters.org/posts/updates/what-did-we-learn-from-the-census/

Trans identified men in the English prison estate are 3 times as likely to have been convicted of a sex or violence offence than the male prison population at large. Keeping trans identified men out of women's loos sounds like a fucking good idea to me.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

More harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men dressed and identifying as men.
less harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men pretending to be women.

Doesn’t matter who is more or less safe if the policy is ‘use the facility where you feel most comfortable’.

No men can be excluded.

No, you must have miss understood.

I wonder if anyone has those crime stats to hand? The ones that show that members of this 'less damaging' group are more likely to be in prison for sex offences than other males?

We used to all be aware that paraphilias cluster... some people have worked very hard to try to get the public to forget this.

My point is that men dressing up as women and/or claiming to be women so that they can access women only spaces so that they can harm women - does not come close to comparing to the harm caused to women by men (dressed as men and identifying as men).

So you are seriously saying that just because a group does less damage, there's no reason to try to protect against them.

So you are seriously saying that just because a group does less damage, there's no reason to try to protect against them.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

More harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men dressed and identifying as men.
less harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men pretending to be women.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

More harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men dressed and identifying as men.
less harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men pretending to be women.

Single women living alone in the UK are more at risk of poverty than they are of getting attacked by a man dressed as a woman in a public WC.
Obviously, and happily, it does not follow that you are poor or have a low bank balance. 🤭

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

More harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men dressed and identifying as men.
less harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men pretending to be women.

<Checks bank balance>

Ha!

Wrong.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

More harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men dressed and identifying as men.
less harm (as in quantifiable instances of violence) are inflicted on women by men pretending to be women.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4651722-butch-women-and-public-loos-not-sure-if-correct-place-to-post?page=2

A lot of them were deleted, but only after I reported them!

My ex ex (!)about ten years ago was dragged out of a bathroom in a bar and shoved against a wall, by a doorman. She was a confident person though. Let him do it and then lifted her top up revealing a rather large pair of...
He was mortified, we all felt quite sorry for him in the end and he bought us all a drink. He was just doing his job, we understood-but it happens and did then.

My most recent ex (obviously my partner at the time of posting that thread) was so nervous about the reception she got, that in her past she'd often gone for hours without going to the loo-even on boozy days out, making herself ill and giving herself a terrible kidney infection-of course I see that this is entirely a matter of her own making and she should have found better ways around it, but my point is, this was years before we met, which in itself was a good few years ago. A 'new' thing, it is not!

It had happened to them both at school, too.

I marveled at the trans accusations. As a rule, transwomen present as feminine. Long hair, skirts etc. Nothing like what either of my aforementioned previous partners looked like.