Sturgeon: SC ruling risks making trans lives "unliveable"

Oft but then there's a lot of it about cough Three Word Bozo

Oft but then there's a lot of it about cough Three Word Bozo

God she’s thick. Embarrassed for the whole population of Scotland that this was once your leader.

That poster prefers broadcast-only mode and never takes on any new information or evidence presented by posters here on MN. It’s baffling to see someone come to a discussion board and then repeat the same points over and over and never actually discuss 🤷‍♀️

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5324655-ahm-no-duckin-anyhin

RealFeminist was in recently.

Remind me, who is the poster who used to identify as Nicola Sturgeon in these conversations…@REALFEMINIST or something like that. I want her IN CAPS PLEASE NIC observations. They were usually worthwhile!

There is no firm foundation. All is built on a consensual, mass delusion which can fracture at any point.

Signs of Collective Delusion in the Workplace

Lack of Open Dialogue: If team meetings are characterised by silence or nodding heads despite apparent concerns, collective delusion may be at play. This indicates an environment where dissent is not welcomed or is actively discouraged.
Overemphasis on Consensus: When reaching an agreement becomes more important than critically evaluating ideas, the group is at risk. Decisions should be based on thorough analysis, not just on getting everyone to agree.
Ignoring Red Flags: Dismissing obvious signs of trouble—like missed deadlines, unexplained data, or repeated mistakes—can be a strong indicator of collective delusion.
Pressure to Conform: If team members feel pressured to agree with a dominant opinion or fear retribution for speaking up, the group is likely suffering from collective delusion.

"In George Orwell's 1984, Winston Smith grapples with the Party's concept of "wrongthink" (also known as thoughtcrime) and its related techniques like doublethink and crimestop. Winston's resistance to the Party's ideology leads him to consider these concepts and to attempt to develop a blind spot to avoid unwanted thoughts, a practice known as crimestop. Doublethink, in particular, highlights the Party's ability to hold two contradictory beliefs simultaneously, and Winston initially struggles to reconcile his own thoughts with the Party's propaganda.

Doublethink

Definition: The ability to simultaneously hold two contradictory beliefs as true.
Party's Use: The Party uses doublethink to control the population's minds and ensure conformity.
Winston's Struggle: Winston grapples with doublethink, initially struggling to reconcile his own rebellious thoughts with the Party's ideology.

Crimestop

Definition:
An instinctive desire to rid oneself of unwanted, incorrect thoughts, which would lead to detection by the Thought Police.
Winston's Practice:
Winston attempts to practice crimestop, training himself to ignore thoughts that contradict the Party's teachings.

Thoughtcrime

Definition: Any thought that is deemed subversive or rebellious against the Party.
Winston's Experience: Winston engages in thoughtcrime by writing in his diary and expressing his doubts about the Party.
Consequences: Thoughtcrime leads to punishment by the Party.

Winston's internal struggle with wrongthink, particularly doublethink, and his attempts at crimestop highlight the Party's pervasive control over thought and the individual's ability to resist it"

Good point.

If as enthusiastic a trans ally as NS is saying that now that the highest court in the land has simply reasserted a basic truth about what a woman is, which most people believed all along, trans lives may be 'unliveable', trans lives aren't built on a very firm foundation, are they?

Again the contradictions here are astounding.

Women fear preditory men therefore women should stop demanding their right to single sex spaces and accept men in?

I'm sure this has been explained to you before but women just want men to stay out of their single sex spaces. This is spaces designated for biological women only. So no biological men (regardless of how they present, identify or what pieces of paper they have) allowed.

As a pp said this a problem for men to work out.

He really doesn't see that all this time he and they wasted on attempting remove every hard gained right women have could have been spent on building shelters for trans people, spaces etc. Now, he and they are whingeing they won't have anywhere to go. Well DUH! Women fought for our places and our spaces. Transwomen want to take, seize, colonise by stealth and not have to lift a finger. Too fucking bad for them! They don't get to steal from others. Typical Male Pattern behaviour. All that time the colonising patriarchal trans women wasted. And they are further behind. FAFO. Women don't ever give up. Ever. Ever! They found that out the hard way.

Just reflecting, on any other site which was even vaguely trans-friendly (and there's plenty of then), anyone posting even mildly gender-critical views would be drummed out so fast their feet wouldn't touch the fucking ground. Meanwhile, on MN, Christinapple continues to trot out this dishonest and repetitive bullshit... forever? 😡

It really grinds my gears because, like all of us, it absolutely infuriates me how much time and resources we have had to waste for YEARS fighting the stupidity and absurdity of the idea that men can be women and there's nothing wrong with letting them self select into women's everything. We could indeed have achieved so much more if we hadn't had to argue basic reality with an army of perverts, shysters, frauds, liars, cheats and plain fucking idiots for years, but they made us and now here we are.

How come, in all this time, the two most obvious and best solutions - third spaces and a campaign to keep TW safe in men's spaces - were never raised and continue not to be?

I must say, it’s hilarious to see Chris piously opining on the amount of time wasted arguing about this issue. Consider how you spend your own time perhaps?

Quite.

Of course men will stay out of women's spaces more if it's both illegal and socially unacceptable. They were never enforced by anti-man force fields. But if we can challenge people without being traduced AND there can be legal consequences, that's how all laws are enforced. No, we will never have a crimeless society but we don't fix that by making bad shit legal, ffs. And Chris and his mates know this. That's why they're so pissed off that they lost the legal battle, so they now know they never had the law on their side, and they're now continuing to try to force the social contract by any means possible. Because social contracts work, and it's all they've got, even while they deny it exists.

Gay people got their rights because they took nothing from anyone else; gay marriage has no effect on anyone else. They also didn't insist that every space on earth adhere to it. Religious communities that don't recognise gay marriage remain and gay people accept that, they just go elsewhere to marry. They have the right in law and so they just use one of the many services that will accommodate them.

Trans activists want to take women's rights to sex segregated spaces, including sports, domestic abuse refuges, changing rooms and lesbian dating, away from them and make it illegal to exclude men from anywhere. They want an external reflection of themselves from everyone else and to redefine everyone else. Gay people never made any such demands. It's a fundamentally different movement.

Important to note also that the trans movement is just repackaged homophobia.

Denying the reality of same sex attraction

Badgering lesbians to accept men in their dating pool

Telling gender non conforming children that there's something wrong with them - 'born in the wrong body'

'transing away the gay'

It's absolutely outrageous that anyone thinks the TRAs are 'progressive' - they're the exact opposite

In the 90s it was homosexuals but now open homophobia isn't tolerated anymore people seem to have moved onto trans people instead

Which is precisely why the trans movement attached itself to LGB. In the 90s queer was a slur but the TQ+ are all embracing their 'queerness' whilst being so supposedly happy but it's also a fuck you to the LGBs they're so hateful of.

As to homophobia, gay people took no rights from any other group and didn't seek to remove womens rights or spaces, @Christinapple . Also, trans is the current homophobia (and misogyny) rebadged, since, it's a homophobic (denies sex attraction and calls same sex attraction 'sexual racism') movement at it's very DNA and nucleus.

The social contract prevented men from entering. The shame, the humiliation, the ability we had to call the police and have them charged - that had been taken from us.

That's the difference.

But you've had this repeatedly explained to you over and over and over and over and over again.

Sturgeon will never admit to being wrong about anything

You know this, yet you continue to make disingenuous points.

Almost as if wanting to demonstrate how much time and trouble men can go to to harass women if sufficiently obsessesed.

Christinapple has spent I don't know how many hours over how many months trying to disrupt women from fighting for their own spaces.

Yet a man couldn't be arsed to make a far smaller effort for himself if similarly obsessed with getting into women's spaces?

Uh huh.

Correct. But as I've said all along men don't need to go through all the time and trouble of becoming trans just to commit a sex offence in a woman's space. There's nothing stopping a cisgendered man just walking into a woman's toilet and doing something.

Which is exactly why it needs to be easy to block them or chuck them out before they commit that offense. Rather than the attempt to chuck them out turning into a Wi Spa "She must be trans - why are you so bigoted?" situation.

It’s of benefit to women socially, politically and from a safety pov to be able to organise among ourselves and have use of some designated single sex services.

Male violence isn’t women’s problem to solve. You appear to hold us responsible for it yet attack us for wanting to be keep ourselves safer from it. I don’t like that view at all.

Shona Robison was foolish enough to say this just before the whole Isla Bryson situation came to public attention.

Made her look a credulous fool. Just saying.

Correct. But as I've said all along men don't need to go through all the time and trouble of becoming trans just to commit a sex offence in a woman's space. There's nothing stopping a cisgendered man just walking into a woman's toilet and doing something

What 'time and trouble'? They don't need to do anything except say 'I identify as a woman' if questioned. Then, bam, women can't question them in their spaces.

You know this, yet you continue to make disingenuous points.

Christinapple · Yesterday 23:32

But as I've said all along men don't need to go through all the time and trouble of becoming trans just to commit a sex offence in a woman's space.

Well come on, don't leave us hanging! Enlighten us; why DO they go through all that to attack women in toilets, film these masteurbating into lingerie in Marks and Sparks, intimidate nurses in the changing rooms, demanding to know if they're going to get undressed, etc etc ad infinitum, ad nauseam?