Politicians respond to the SC judgement

Lisa Nandy made it clear that she was all for housing male rapists in women's prisons.

Bearing in mind that the Supreme Court decision was only focused on the rather narrow question of whether "sex" meant biological sex or certificated sex, it was already common ground that trans women without gender recognition certificates are legally men.

And yet, there were (and possibly still are) trans women without gender recognition certificates in the female estate. Nandy was fully supportive of that. She said that transgender prisoners should be accommodated in the prison of their choosing. The video is on the internet for ever more.

Call to Action
Maggie Chapman is up for an expulsion vote from the Equalities Committee on Tuesday in Holyrood.

Scots contact your MSP as soon as possible! We just need 4 votes one SNP and two Tories and 1 Labour. This could undermine the Scottish Greens and send a warning to politicians who turn against the rule of law.

Thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5319426-maggie-chapman-msp-slanders-supreme-court?page=5

'I wish we'd listened' is probably the most sincere thing I've heard yet among a lot of lies, damned lies, insanity and alternative realities.

Well I wouldn’t say Wes’s ‘apology’ is 100% clear, but I think ultimately he’s admitted he was taken in by the rhetoric and I imagine as a gay man it was quite strong and that he wishes he hadn’t been so easily led. I accept that, but he needs to act accordingly now, no reverse ferreting or fence sitting.

Wes Streeting reverse feretted quite a while ago and has been openly supporting the Darlington nurses.

Nandy is adopting the Rebekah Brooks defence, better to be seen as incompetent than criminal.

If Nandy is saying she didn't understand the law, that doesn't reflect well on her, does it? Lots of women tried to explain it to her but she wanted to expel them from the Labour Party.

Wes Streeting has come close to an apology today. From the Times:

Asked about his previous comments that “trans women are women — get over it”, he said: “I’ve addressed this previously and I don’t mind kind of saying, ‘look, you know, I don’t think that was the right thing to say’.

“And actually, I wish I’d listened much earlier. I don’t think we, to be honest, given some of the rough discourse we’ve had on these issues in recent years, I don’t think we lose anything by having a bit of humility to say, ‘actually, I wish we’d listened’.”

If she truly only took a stance based on what she thought the law said then why didn’t she emphasise that he law needed to be followed rather than trot out the usual TWAW, TMAM and their all the most marginalised in society argument.

She took the stance as it’s what her 12 yr old SPADs told her and she thought it was a morality issue not a legal one.

Times article about Rosie:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/8ea41644-3ee1-4d61-ac9c-e3db6fd68c16?shareToken=15aca6be64e3534cc83fed3bdc99aa40

Agree plus Kemi B stepped in when Baroness Falkner was under a McCarthy like threat

And pushed for biological sex in Eq Act

If it wasn’t for FWS and the SC ruling we’d have a committed Labour.

Tf for those brave women. If we’re talking about close shaves it’s Labour not Tories.

I think if it hadn't been for organisations like Woman's Place and Fair Play for Women, in combination with the brilliant, bold women of Mumsnet, self-ID would have gone through. The government didn't anticipate the strength of opposition to the consultation.

I do agree, though, that the Tory party was more divided than the other parties on this. There were very few dissenters in the Labour Party, Lib Dems, Greens etc.

I agree 100% that the Conservatives woke up first and I can't fault Kemi Badenoch on the issue, in fact I think she's been immense. (And let's not forget that the Minister who first announced that they weren't going to proceed with self ID was..... Liz Truss and that she was blasted by Crispin Blunt for doing so.)

I still strongly disagree about it not being a close shave. I believe that, if they'd simply counted the number of consultation responses in the consultation for and against, then we'd have lost.

I don't see how we're ever going to achieve any real change if we can't acknowledge the way all mainstream parties abjectly failed to listen to women.

The Tories under May consulted on self-ID and did nothing for two years. Johnson stamped on it in 2020. I don’t doubt that he’d have reversed any self-ID law had one been put in place.

Sunak blocked Scottish self-ID.

Badenoch helped pushed through the Cass review.

By the time of the election the Tories had a manifesto commitment to amending the EA to define sex as biological sex.

I really don’t think there was any close shave. Just some loathsome weakness and kowtowing to noisy agitators from some Tories.

because I think that the sentiment of the pledge about protecting trans rights and about accepting that trans men are men and trans women are women is really important,

She agrees with the sentiment while she thinks it's legal, but disagrees with it when she's told it's illegal?? You either agree with the bloody sentiment, or you don't.

Yeah, I think that you have to walk the walk in the Labour party and that means that we have to do two things – one is that we have to accept that people are who they say they are.

Christ. the labour party used to be about protecting workers' rights. Not living in La La Land pretending that people can change sex.

Who else does she think can self identify? Criminals? Identify as not having committed a crime?

it's batshit

Yes we were a whisker away from a Conservative Government introducing self ID. You could say they gave away a penalty and then saved it.

I save my harshest words for Labour because they'd been my party the whole of my adult life but I don't think any of them come out of this well.

I agree the Tories woke up to this much faster than the other major parties and they didn't treat non-believers with the vitriole seen elsewhere. But I think we escaped self-id by the skin of our teeth. Perhaps if Theresa May had stayed PM someone might have stopped her? Relatively though, out of the lot of them, the Tories come off least worse best.

All the ferrets reversing! I'd have much more respect if they just owned up. Admit they were wrong and apologised. Only Streeting, so far as I am aware, has come anywhere close to doing that.

Speaking on Sky News’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday programme, Nandy said the call for those who support organisations such as Woman’s Place to be kicked out of the party had given her pause before signing the pledge. I have to say, that was the part of the pledge that gave me pause for thought about whether to sign it,” said Nandy. “I decided to sign it in the end because I think that the sentiment of the pledge about protecting trans rights and about accepting that trans men are men and trans women are women is really important, especially at the moment with the level of discrimination that people face.”

^Asked whether she would be happy for people who identify as women to stand on all-women shortlists, the Wigan MP said: “Yeah, I think that you have to walk the walk in the Labour party and that means that we have to do two things – one is that we have to accept that people are who they say they are. I’ve never believed that politicians or even me as an individual should interfere or dictate to people who they are.”^

Yy to an intelligence test, can we put Nandy, Whittome, Butler and Lammy forward first?

Mind you, there’d be a lot of empty spaces on the Commons benches if we did this.

The absolute cheek of her trying to spin it. She must take us all for mugs. More front than Harrods.

The premise of that article is bollocks.

That there were some feeble, easily-led Tories is certainly true. The Tories should have moved against trans nonsense much harder and faster. Judge them for weakness, sure, but not for trans advocacy.

The reality is that no Tory government was in thrall to Stonewall, self-ID or the destruction of children’s welfare.

The SNP, LibDems and Greens are the worst. But of the biggest parties it’s Labour that’s the culprit. As a pp has said, look at the party’s conduct towards opposing voices.

Well hopefully after her shitty comments about women the Labour Party could never select her as leader!

She and Dawn Butler et al will drive the vote towards Reform.

Whenever I’m pissed off with Starmer (which is often) I remind myself that we could have ended up with Lisa Nandy as party leader.

Certainly no sisterhood feelings towards Lisa Nandy. She needs to be bloody ashamed of the comments she has made about women, she wanted to crush women’s groups. Totally untrustworthy as a politician as she was another captured by the trans lobby and just went along with it.

So how is that attitude law dependent? It isn't. It's morality dependent. And she should be bloody ashamed

Ms Nandy, in 2020, previously backed a pledge card calling on the party to expel “transphobic” members and described campaigns including Women’s Place as “trans-exclusionist hate groups”.

And I genuinely think when I look at the way the debate is conducted, the way that so much of this is based on fear and creating fear about a group of people who are having a very, very tough time,” she said.

“When we look at the way we reduce the debate to things like bodily parts, I think when we look back in history we will be utterly ashamed of ourselves

Lisa Nandy, 2023

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/lisa-nandy-jk-rowling-labour-labour-party-b2448614.html#

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62g7007kxko?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR4ZCW0W0dSPXZvPccsZRhOeYkdQJLKGivXobmpPlDfM1VVY2tuBlpfdUwBm6w_aem_aMDj-vtqL5EyTkJokHBwEg