Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Would you ever consider a transman a man?

455 replies

Sidaway · 11/04/2023 14:57

Parallel question to this really:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4782092-would-you-ever-consider-a-transwoman-a-woman

Would the straight women here consider a trans-identified female, who "passed" really well, as a romantic/sexual partner?

And for the lesbian women here, would that "passing" be a turn-off?

Would you ever consider a transwoman a woman? | Mumsnet

Mumsnet makes parents' lives easier by pooling knowledge, advice and support on everything from conception to childbirth, from babies to teenagers.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4782092-would-you-ever-consider-a-transwoman-a-woman

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Edwardthomasjones · 05/04/2026 00:56

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Edwardthomasjones · 05/04/2026 00:54

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Edwardthomasjones · 05/04/2026 00:53

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Edwardthomasjones · 05/04/2026 00:50

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Billi80 · 16/04/2023 22:39

I have done a few times. Most of the times (I’d say 7/10) I found out they were biologically female I still perceived them to be male as that’s how they presented to me from the offset

Aphrathestorm · 15/04/2023 10:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DocStrangelove · 15/04/2023 01:59

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 14/04/2023 18:21

@DocStrangelove "Human attraction is a complex and many-splendored thing." well I can certainly agree with that.

I think being upfront about who you are how you feel and what you want from a relationship is an ethical baseline, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone love or happiness.

Thank you. I think we have found a lovely point of agreement.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 14/04/2023 18:21

@DocStrangelove "Human attraction is a complex and many-splendored thing." well I can certainly agree with that.

I think being upfront about who you are how you feel and what you want from a relationship is an ethical baseline, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone love or happiness.

DocStrangelove · 14/04/2023 18:03

@anyolddinosaur could you clarify what you mean by "what you have done to yourself"? I'm a bit confused if you insist that you can always tell when men are trans but also suggest perhaps people can't tell that I am trans? Or that I am unattractive because I am trans? At any rate I am very forward about being trans for safety purposes and so can assure you that the interest does not wane when they find out I am trans. Human attraction is a complex and many-splendored thing.

nilsmousehammer · 14/04/2023 11:15

Interesting how many fewer comments on this thread than the parallel one. TRAs dont care about trans men.

It really does seem that way. They're only ever of use to the activism movement when they can be used as a resource to serve the male agenda.

Hence at the moment the never ending scripts:

  1. you cannot keep men out of your spaces because you'll still have to have females who prefer to look like men/lesbians who aren't proper women so ha

  2. you can't tell who are the females presenting as male and the males presenting as females so males will get in and you won't be able to stop them so ha

  3. if you're going to want single sex spaces for females then you have to provide single sex spaces for males (you're female, shitwork and providing for everyone else is your problem to solve mummy) and males won't want females in their spaces so ha

and on. And on. And on.

Same attitude. Same issue. A particular small group of males see females as walking resources of the sole purpose of serving males, and start shouting and behaving in really quite interesting ways when those females suggest that those males should perhaps differentiate between their maternal service unit and other females who will not be revolving around them and unconditionally putting them first, and that decent male people are capable of respecting other people's needs and inclusion too .

Beowulfa · 14/04/2023 11:04

Sexuality: I'm a heterosexual female, so no.

Physical attraction: In terms of superficially passing, I find beards, tattoos, short stature and chubbiness a turn-off, so your average transman is also a non-starter for me.

Emotional: I would rather be single than in a relationship with anyone needy. I wasted years of my life trying to "fix" a man with addiction issues.

anyolddinosaur · 14/04/2023 07:23

Interesting how many fewer comments on this thread than the parallel one. TRAs dont care about trans men.

The transmen I knew before they were tran do not pass, not even as the gay men they pretend to be. A beard does not make them a man. They are too short, the wrong shape, still have interests considered feminine. They date other transmen.

I'm not a lesbian, although intellectually I see advantages and rather regret I've never felt any sexual attraction to a woman. If I ever met a trans man who did pass I would not be attracted to them once I discovered they hated having a female body and were living a lie. @DocStrangelove Does the interest in you persist once they discover what you have done to yourself?

OzempicClicker · 14/04/2023 07:07

No. I love butch women though.

Lolaandbehold · 13/04/2023 22:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lolaandbehold · 13/04/2023 22:04

I do not think transmen are indeed men. I think they are women.

I’d never consider dating one as I am not a lesbian.

FeodoraVictoria · 13/04/2023 20:20

As a straight woman even if a woman passes as a man from photos or far away (and is tall enough not to be spotted immediately) once you got very close to them I think it would be fairly obvious they were not a man and once intimate or in bed (which wouldn't happen as I am married) realizing this person was performing a stereotype would be extremely weird.. I doubt it gets that far with many women.

I find butch women way sexier because a lot of them have the swagger and self-confidence that I like in strong women generally and I find their radical self acceptance in a misogynistic society way more rebellious. I also enjoy how much they love and appreciate women.

Self-confidence and self-acceptance are always going to be much more attractive and interesting.

DocStrangelove · 13/04/2023 19:00

Sidaway · 11/04/2023 15:12

I take it that's a "no" then 😉

Must admit, that's my thought too. Just, no. Even if I believed in the gender stuff (which I don't), it would seem too - weird.

Yes sorry it's not really a parallel question - both questions were directed at us women, and so present us with different issues.

Someone should tell these girls who think being a dude would be cool:

  • straight women won't fancy them (missing something between the legs, and just not... quite right)
  • gay men wont (ditto)
  • lesbians wont (too masculine)
  • straight men won't (ditto)

Feel very sorry for what their lives might hold.

This reminds me of the anti-feminist fellows who suggested feminists were too ugly to get partners. My feminist mother raised me to not define myself by my romantic relationships..

At any rate this has not been my experience at all. I have had far more folks interested in me since transitioning.

GarlicGrace · 12/04/2023 22:03

NotAnotherBathBomb · 12/04/2023 18:54

I’ve gone back and looked at it. I think her Trans partner has only had relationships with females, before and after transitioning.

Transitioning.

Why would someone who is transitioning to a man sound like a butch lesbian to you? 🙄

Decided to bother with a reply to this. Our society is so male-centric that a woman who doesn't want a male partner and doesn't perform femininity is counted a not-woman.

I think this has varied over time, but certainly through the span of living memory, it's so ingrained that "Which of them is the man in their relationship?" is seen as a reasonable question. There are also much harsher signals, of course, such as corrective rape as well as physical and verbal assaults. Basically, if you're a woman who visibly rejects every aspect of our male-pleasing role in society, you are not a "valid" woman. But your inferior sex is known, so you aren't a man either. You're something strange and rather unwelcome.

Unless a growing woman has some confident lesbians in her life, there is no social representation of women like her. Media encourage girls to wear makeup, learn hairstyles, follow fashion and be what boys consider desirable. She has no cultural framework by which to understand herself. Faced with the realisation that she is a strange, unwelcome, invalid woman by prevailing standards, she's looking at a difficult and lonely path. It's a lot for a young person to shoulder.

The discovery that she can become valid by transing herself to a semblance of a man must come as a relief, a way out. It promises social acceptance of all that she is, provided she takes the required steps to seem male. That is - by sacrificing her breasts and risking her future health - she can actualise society's prejudice against women like her. As a "man", she'll fit in.

The logical definition of a not-woman is a man. Therefore, it isn't surprising that many people see butch lesbians as equivalent to trans men. And all because society hasn't bothered to embrace the full range of female existence, preferring instead to chuck "masculine" women and "feminine" men aside in adherence to patriarchally determined sex roles.

Brokendaughter · 12/04/2023 21:39

Butch Lesbians like being women & they like their own female body as well as their female partners female body.
They are honest about who they are & who they are attracted to, they don't need to deceive anyone into a relationship or to lie about what sort of relationship it is.

Women who say they are not women don't like their female body & want other people to pretend they are something they are not.
They want to lie about what they are & if they are attracted to women, then they want that woman to lie about what she is too so they can play out their fantasy that anyone really believes they are the opposite sex.

How could you possibly think the two are similar?

Kanaloa · 12/04/2023 19:02

NotAnotherBathBomb · 12/04/2023 18:48

So please enlighten me where is the line between Transman and butch lesbian? 🤔

One takes testosterone and has probably had or is hoping to have breast removal in efforts to appear less female and the other hasn't? I mean is isn't confusing, whether or not you agree with it.

I would say the difference is that one is a lesbian woman who doesn’t fit with conventional standards of femininity but doesn’t care, and the other is normally a woman who doesn’t fit with conventional standards of femininity and does care, so tries to fit into another category.

TheBugWife · 12/04/2023 19:01

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 12/04/2023 18:59

@TheBugWife

my Gran used to say ‘there’s someone for everyone’. Honestly, I am glad your partner and you found each other, it’s quite encouraging.

Thanks, I agree with your gran.

So much more to him than whats between his legs after all.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 12/04/2023 18:59

@TheBugWife

my Gran used to say ‘there’s someone for everyone’. Honestly, I am glad your partner and you found each other, it’s quite encouraging.

NotAnotherBathBomb · 12/04/2023 18:54

Sugarfree23 · 12/04/2023 17:38

Calm!
Read @EyesOnThePies at 15:13, the transman she describes married to a lesbian sounds very much like a butch lesbian to me.

I’ve gone back and looked at it. I think her Trans partner has only had relationships with females, before and after transitioning.

Transitioning.

Why would someone who is transitioning to a man sound like a butch lesbian to you? 🙄

EmotionalSupportHyena · 12/04/2023 18:53

Middle class leftie men are also the worst in bed and worst at relationships IMHO so they can fuck right off too.

Sad Billy Braggot Dicks, one and all.

NotAnotherBathBomb · 12/04/2023 18:48

So please enlighten me where is the line between Transman and butch lesbian? 🤔

One takes testosterone and has probably had or is hoping to have breast removal in efforts to appear less female and the other hasn't? I mean is isn't confusing, whether or not you agree with it.