Would you ever consider a transman a man?

Same.

In fact, years ago there was this guy in one of my circles... He was HOT! He looked uncannily like Johnny Depp. He had a girlfriend, they were even engaged at one point. I didnt know them personally at the time.

As it turns out, hes a trans man! I would never have guessed!

I have since become friends with his ex, and she has dated exclusively men, since breaking up with him (as he cheated on her).

The lack of penis would probably be a problem for me. But I also dont want to date all sorts of other people for all sorts of reasons.

No

It’s not about passing, not that many seem to anyway, it’s about what sex they actually are in reality.

I’m a straight female, so I wouldn’t date trans men, because they’re women. I also couldn’t deal with someone who thinks gender is a thing that means you can change from a woman to a man or man to a woman.

No

Would I think they pass as a man/woman - no.

I am happy to say he/she but in the back of my mind I know that’s not their sex and I don’t think I’d ever not feel that.

I actually don’t know anyone who has been trans for 30+ years and so I don’t know how I would feel if they lived their entire life portrayed as the opposite sex.

I probably wouldn’t be in a relationship with a trans person because I think being trans involves a lot of mental anguish and a lot of trauma, which I couldn’t deal with in a partner.

No - people are born either male or female. The most worrying point about this is the teenage girls who have been impacted by this trend. I feel that they have been manipulated by older adults with an agenda.

I don't think it sounds bad at all. I can't be around people who believe in delusions.

I view the myth that it's possible to change sex with the same level of disdain that I would apply to people who believe that the moon is made of cheese.

No

Hell no

Call themselves - not the males.

No. I don't particularly care if they 'pass' or not (though I've seen none irl who do and perhaps one or two in the media who might at a push). They are not men, just as TW are not women. Quite apart from the fact that I wouldn't be attracted to them on a physical level, I also wouldn't want to date someone who believed in gender ideology and that people can change sex.

Just to me I’d presume it means they pretend to be/try to be seen as men. So would introduce themselves with a male name, call the males ‘Mr’ whoever, wear clothes that make them look more masculine rather than traditionally feminine clothes etc.

No. Its a woman pretending to be a man - which they can never biologically be - and I'm not sexually attracted to women.

Of the two transmen I know, one is in a LTR with a lesbian (was previously a butch lesbian before transitioning).

the other is much younger and says she is a gay man. Yes, it is confusing.

No, I’m heterosexual. Happy to use appropriate names and pronouns etc. socially but the chances of me being sexually or romantically attracted to a transman are slim to none.

Naw.

I’ve occasionally happened across a TM who looked quite attractive in a photo but I’m not interested in dating a man who doesn’t have a penis.

I’ve dated men between 5’9 and 6’7 in the past so I’m not a ‘6 foot and over only’ type (and I’m 5’11 with my best shoes on) but like @MrsTerryPratchett says, there is a layer of attraction that is just on the edge of consciousness, possibly pheromonal, and I just can’t imagine that happening with biological woman.

Besides, I like male proportions, so even the shortest men I’ve dated have had man hands, man hips, man thighs, etc. A bit of extra hair and/or muscle doesn’t change the underlying female body structure. I’m always struck by how short transmen’s arms seem compared to a man of the same height.

The few older transmen I’m familiar with seem quite aged compared to their same age male counterparts. I worry that the medical and surgical interventions are a risk for earlier onset osteoporosis and dementia etc. The data isn’t great but it seems like older transmen are especially prone to obesity too.

No. You can't change sex.

@MenopausalMe
"I’m attracted to people who don’t conform to gender expectations, I find people who want to enforce them very offputting."

I agree completely.

Can you explain the skin thing to me? I've googled Buck Angel, first time I heard of him, and I don't see what about his skin is meant to be a giveaway

What does 'live as men' mean. How does this effect anything bar the clothes they wear?

No. Not a value judgment, just a straight up biological fact.

I know several young transmen who pass well at a glance if you don't have "transman" in your head, and a relative who transitioned in middle age, and only socially, and I'd have said that she "passed" as a clean cut, short and burly man but now I think of what previous posters have said, her skin absolutely gives it away.

I feel the same.

I know this is a bit of a crude question, but who exactly is the target dating market for transmen?

Who is it they would like to attract as a partner?

The (3) TM that I know all have dated/are in relationships with women, and considered themselves lesbian before transitioning.

Really?

The average shoe size for a woman is a 6 and a 9 for men. The average height is 165 Vs 178cm.

You must surely admit that on average women are smaller than men.

I mean, on a day to day basis, if I see a small man I'm not thinking 'oh wait, on average women are smaller than men, so I must actually be looking at a woman'. I'd just think I was looking at a smaller than average man

No. Playing 'pretend-sies' and being kind is what got us into this mess in the first place.