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Lib Dem Councillor Matt Downey forced to apologise to FPFW.

(51 Posts)
yourhairiswinterfire Wed 09-Dec-20 18:51:07

For calling them a transphobic hate group, and referring to other women as 'terfs'. Glad to see it.

They found he had breached the party’s constitution by failing to treat members of the public with respect

Had to roll my eyes at this bit:

But when he was asked whether he could point to specific instances that justified his description of Fair Play for Women as transphobic. He said he could not but felt “Fair Play for Women’s public comments are self-explanatory”. He argued that the group does not campaign on a wide range of women’s rights but only in relation to issues which deny trans people their rights.

Later in the hearing when Dr Williams was explaining the work of Fair Play For Women to the panel she said “All transwomen are born male and sometimes that matters in policy making”. Cllr Downey highlighted this as evidence of ‘transphobia’.

He thinks a statement of fact is evidence of transphobia. How bloody silly.

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persistentwoman Wed 09-Dec-20 19:07:52

That's like a toddler's non apology after a tantrum isn't it? I almost pity the Lib Dems having people like that as councillors (almost grin )

Winesalot Wed 09-Dec-20 19:09:57

The lack of definition of transphobia, and the casting of the net to be so wide as to include statements of irrefutable fact is eventually going to backfire.

ArabellaScott Wed 09-Dec-20 20:17:08


Also, I'm sorry but his beard appears to be eating his face.

TheGreatSloth Wed 09-Dec-20 20:19:45

It’s a good job Matt helpfully specifies his pronouns on Zoom (he/him) because otherwise I would have been totally baffled.

yourhairiswinterfire Wed 09-Dec-20 20:20:42

Also, I'm sorry but his beard appears to be eating his face.

I especially love how he's the only one with his pronouns on display, as if there's any risk of confusion confused

OP’s posts: |
yourhairiswinterfire Wed 09-Dec-20 20:21:12

X Post grin

OP’s posts: |
ThatIsNotMyUsername Wed 09-Dec-20 20:24:07

Beaten and pronouns? Are we playing bingo again?

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman Wed 09-Dec-20 20:24:09

It’s a good job Matt helpfully specifies his pronouns on Zoom (he/him) because otherwise I would have been totally baffled.
grin grin

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 09-Dec-20 20:24:24

The lack of definition of transphobia

Apologies, the definition is very long...

“‘Transphobia’ is the fear or dislike of someone based on the fact they are trans. Transphobia, whether through words or action, may be targeted at people who are, or who are perceived to be, trans or trans allies.

‘Trans’ is an umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth. Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a variety of terms. Trans people are not required to have undergone any medical or social transition to be considered trans. Other examples are set out in the Stonewall Glossary.

Transphobic behaviour may include (i) attempting directly or through advocacy to remove trans people’s rights, (ii) misrepresenting trans people, (iii) abuse of trans people, and (iv) systematically excluding trans people from discussions about issues that directly affect them.”

Genuine errors or misunderstandings about a trans person’s gender identity, or about the nature or effect of a policy or practice, do happen, and genuine errors or misunderstandings should not be considered intentionally transphobic. Some people may have had little or no experience or engagement with issues affecting trans people. Genuine errors and misunderstandings can still have potentially harmful effects, but the action taken to address them should take into account the lack of intention. Where accidental offence or harm has been caused the most appropriate course of action will generally be an apology, retraction or similar.

However, where an individual repeatedly does things which might be viewed as transphobic, it is unlikely this is in genuine error. This is especially true if they have been challenged by others, and they have been pointed to resources to help them learn about trans rights and transphobia. Indeed, disingenuous feigned ignorance of trans issues is a common tactic of committed opponents of trans rights. A history of transphobic actions or behaviours should be taken into account when considering whether someone is being intentionally transphobic.

Appendix of Examples

To help members understand how transphobia manifests, here are a few common examples of transphobic actions which you may come across both inside and outside the Party. This list is not exhaustive and behaviours which constitute transphobia may change over time. Members may seek further guidance on patterns of transphobic behaviour from LGBT+ Liberal Democrats.

Denying trans people’s gender identity or refusing to accept it

For example:

“deadnaming” – calling someone by their birth name after they have changed their name. In the early phases of transition, or if someone is not aware of the transition or is not well informed about transition, accidental mistakes may be made as people get used to new names. Doing it deliberately, persistently and/or maliciously is a means of humiliation and degradation.

“misgendering” – referring to someone using a word, especially a pronoun or a form of address, which does not correctly reflect the gender with which they identify. As with deadnaming, accidental mistakes may be made as people get used to new pronouns or forms of address but doing it deliberately, persistently and/or maliciously is a means of humiliation and degradation.

Mockery or dismissal of new names and pronouns and the identity they reflect. This often takes the form of inappropriate comparisons (‘people will be defining themselves as Muppets and Wombles next’), suggesting trans people do not mean what they say (for example by describing them as ‘confused’ or ‘just trying to be controversial’), or suggesting trans identities are a fad, through comments such as ‘I’m too old to understand all this’.

Using phrases or language to describe trans people which are designed to suggest that trans people are a separate category of person from the gender they identify as or that their gender identity is not valid. Current examples include referring to a trans woman or non-binary person as a “biological man” or a trans man or non-binary person as a “biological woman”, which eradicates the trans person’s gender identity in favour of their biology at birth.

Misrepresenting and excluding trans people

For example:

Accusing trans people, as a group, of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single trans person or even non-trans people.
Positioning trans people as a threat to individual rights or safety or as a threat to society as a whole, for example by equating trans people with paedophiles, rapists, sex offenders or grooming gangs.
Making mendacious, dehumanising, demonising, or stereotypical allegations about trans people or their cisgender allies. This includes spreading the idea of a “trans conspiracy” which asserts undue influence over media or government or claiming that cisgender allies support trans rights initiatives out of fear or bribery rather than a genuine belief that trans rights are human rights.
Applying double standards by requiring of trans people behaviours that are not expected or demanded of any other groups in society – for example criticising both trans women who do not conform to female stereotypes for not being feminine enough and trans women who do conform for perpetuating sexism.
Knowingly promoting policies and practices that actively discriminate against trans people

For example:

Requiring trans people to be separate from society, using segregated facilities, or denying them access to facilities which would be required in order for them to fully participate in public life.
Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or physical or mental harming of trans people because of their gender identity.
Knowingly promoting the idea that gender dysphoria is a form of, or is caused by, mental illness, which directly contradicts NHS guidance (available here/).
Advocating the withdrawal or defunding of access to transition-related medical treatment for trans people or advocating or facilitating any kind of therapy that tries to change a person’s gender identity.

Apollo440 Wed 09-Dec-20 20:42:29

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheGreatSloth Wed 09-Dec-20 20:46:50

No wonder Matt’s beard is so long if he was the one who drafted that epic definition! It probably grew a foot in the process!

Campervan69 Wed 09-Dec-20 20:51:26

How pathetic these beardy wierdos are. And that was a crap non apology. Bet he was fuming though having to bow down and say sorry for my bad behaviour to women.

Campervan69 Wed 09-Dec-20 20:54:49

"Representatives of political parties running for elections should refrain from insulting women. Last year we listed all the parliamentary candidates who called women "terfs"

All but one of the @LibDems PCCs calling women 'terfs' were men.

And this week a @LibDems Councillor made to apologise for calling women 'terfs' and us a 'transphobic hate group'"

Good for FPFW

nauticant Wed 09-Dec-20 21:12:46

Unfortunately he's straight back at it:

Passmeabottlemrjones Wed 09-Dec-20 21:14:53


It’s a good job Matt helpfully specifies his pronouns on Zoom (he/him) because otherwise I would have been totally baffled.


Campervan69 Wed 09-Dec-20 21:25:04

Yes all the lib dems seem to be on twitter this evening calling FPFW a transphobic hate group. Strange lot they are.

Passmeabottlemrjones Wed 09-Dec-20 21:27:19

Not only on his Zoom, his Twitter bio, that letter on his Twitter. Honestly Matt, no one cares about your fuckin pronouns.

Just had a look at his Twitter - where do they find these people, he comes across as a complete wally!

zanahoria Wed 09-Dec-20 21:34:55

so when will he be making this apology?

because that ain't an apology

nauticant Wed 09-Dec-20 21:35:00

Downey most likely will be feeling smug about his games but what he's actually doing is showing who he is to more responsible members of the Lib Dems. He's giving them a demonstration of what being a modern day trans ally looks like and how hating women seems to be a key component.

It parallels the Keira Bell case: put the "pro trans" arguments in front of people outside of the activism and what's being pushed looks alarming.

ArabellaScott Wed 09-Dec-20 21:36:10

I googled this person. He has previously been in the news for spending too long in a toilet, apparently.

Anyway, he is now claiming he didn't and wouldn't apologise to them, and is repeating the claim that FPFW are a transphobic hate group, as are various other cllrs/lib dem people.

If anyone would like to make a complaint about this Cllr or any of the other Cllrs repeating the same slurs, you can do so here:

teawamutu Wed 09-Dec-20 21:38:46

What an absolute tit.

NonCisWoman Wed 09-Dec-20 21:41:00

Oh dear.

The Lib Dems were smashed to pieces at the last election; I can't see them getting ANY votes back with councilors like this at their forefront.

yourhairiswinterfire Wed 09-Dec-20 21:48:19


Oh dear.

The Lib Dems were smashed to pieces at the last election; I can't see them getting ANY votes back with councilors like this at their forefront.

I can't believe they think pissing so many women off to make themselves look 'good' to the teeniest % of the population is a winning formula.

OP’s posts: |
KeyBored Wed 09-Dec-20 21:49:40

Oh what a shame, he was quite a nice little boy. Still, he might grow out of it.

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