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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Meeting with Scottish women’s equality orgs re changes to GRA

33 replies

Lemonjello · 29/04/2018 16:52

www.engender.org.uk/content/events/85-why-womens-equality-organisations-support-the-proposed-changes-to-the-gender-recognition-act/

From the link:

In March, national organisations working for women's equality in Scotland produced a joint response to the Scottish Government's consultation on proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act.

In it, we express broad support for the Scottish Government proposals, confirm our view that the proposals won't undermine the safety and dignity of women accessing women-only services, and make some detailed recommendations around next steps.

This event is to enable people to hear from representatives from women's equality organisations and Scottish Trans Alliance and ask any questions they might have about women's equality and the gender recognition act.

OP posts:
Trousersdontmakemeaman · 29/04/2018 16:56

The women's organisations consulted are entirely funded by the Scottish Government and therefore silenced in their ability to say anything but they agree.

leyat · 29/04/2018 17:02

Women's Orgs can say plenty, they only need to offer services to trans identified males, they don't need to do that in the way many of them do. I think this would be a great event to go to for feminists.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/04/2018 17:05

Women's Orgs can say plenty

Not if it's a condition of their funding that they are inclusive

Lose the funding or try and manage the risks of TIMs trying to access the service...?

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 29/04/2018 17:06

Wales and Scotland have both come out already and said access is on gender.

ReluctantCamper · 29/04/2018 17:07

I clickied your link Clicky link

This is on 22 May in Edinburgh. I would definitely go if I didn't live 600 miles away.

It would be great if someone here could attend and let us know what it was like.

Original poster
Lemonjello · 29/04/2018 17:14

Thank you camper Smile

OP posts:
Waddlelikeapenguin · 29/04/2018 17:31

Trousersdontmakemeaman & ItsAllGoingToBeFine can you drill this down please? Is funding being dependent on acquiescence to gender ideology documented somewhere?
Thank you Flowers

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/04/2018 17:42

can you drill this down please? Is funding being dependent on acquiescence to gender ideology documented somewhere

All violence against women organisations that receive Scottish Government funding provide trans-inclusive services. The requirement for trans inclusion plans has been in place for six years , and has not given rise to any concerns or challenges of which we are currently aware. Rather, trans women have added to our movements through their support, through volunteering, and as staff members of our organisations. In order to provide a definitive statement on this in our consultation response(s), national umbrella violence against women organisations will be systematically gathering data on how well these plans are working at the frontline. (Emphasis mine)

www.engender.org.uk/news/blog/frequently-asked-questions-womens-equality-and-the-gender-recognition-act/

Toomanybourbons · 29/04/2018 17:49

Did anyone see this in the Herald today - may raise your blood pressure, I wouldn't even know where to start with it, it's so full of false claims and propaganda. Favourite part is the idea that women are campaigning for section 28 style restrictions on trans pupils.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/16191824.The_truth_about_trans_wars/

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 29/04/2018 18:03

I can't read it all because of the paywall. Is there anything in there that might peak trans the general public?

Theinconstantgardener · 29/04/2018 18:46

Have signed up. Hopefully will be able to go- work permitting

OldCrone · 29/04/2018 19:12

I've just looked at their response to the Scottish GRA consultation that they linked to.
www.engender.org.uk/content/publications/Scottish-Womens-Sector-response-to-the-consultation-on-proposed-changes-to-the-Gender-Recognition-Act.pdf

Section1 part 8
The proposals will benefit trans women, who will no longer be required to go through a process of seeking a Gender Recognition Certificate that appears to conflict with the right to privacy set out in article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (3)
Note 3
Resolution 2048 of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe resolution calls on all Member States to “develop quick, transparent and accessible procedures, based on self-determination, for changing the name and registered sex of transgender people on birth certificates, identity cards…and other similar documents.”

Resolution 2048 is a recommendation. States do not have to conform to this. There was a case last year in which the European Court of Human Rights ruled that requiring a diagnosis of gender dysphoria before changing legal sex was not a breach of human rights.
www.humanrights.ch/upload/pdf/170425_Medienmitteilung_EGMR_Transmenschen.pdf

Toomanybourbons · 29/04/2018 19:48

I don't think there is much that would peak trans the population. Just the usual 'facts' about trans being the most oppressed, highest suicide rate, and that the GRA being updated to self ID won't affect women at all. Just because it won't. Because the menz and the politicians said so, ok, and they know best.

Engender are an absolute nightmare. Full on into silencing women. I tried to comment on their FB page a while back after they declared their support for trans people and self ID. Their admin was literally deleting things as quickly as I could post them, despite the fact that I was being reasonable and respectful and other people who were screeching about TERFs were allowed to say what they wanted.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 29/04/2018 19:49

Thankyou ItsAllGoingToBeFine Flowers
I need to follow up with my MSP

PencilsInSpace · 30/04/2018 08:24

I hope WPUK send some representatives to this.

There was a radio 4 series recently on charities and the way they now operate here. The episode on service delivery is particularly relevant:

In recent years, governments of all political stripes have looked to charities to deliver many of their services, including to some of the hardest-to-reach individuals and communities in the UK and around the world. But what happens when charities get almost all their money from government? How free are they to speak out on behalf of the people they are supposed to help? And what else happens when charities start behaving like contractors, competing with each other for business?

OldCrone · 30/04/2018 09:43

This is an excerpt from their response to the GRA consultation.
Instead of formulating our own response to the detail of the proposals, we would commend for consideration Scottish Trans Alliance’s submission, which draws on the experience of trans women in Scotland

Not only could they not be bothered to write their own response, but they recommend the response from trans organisations.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 30/04/2018 09:57

Women's groups handing their platform to transgroups?

This is where we are going with this bollocks

www.facebook.com/mrctv/videos/1807981105891596/

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 30/04/2018 10:36

Can anyone think of good questions to ask? Will anyone be attending?

terryleather · 30/04/2018 10:48

This reply has been deleted

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AncientLights · 30/04/2018 10:58

AssignedPurfect, watched the video - unbelievable. I would like to hear someone engage those protesters and find out exactly what they think is 'fascist' or 'nazi' about what we heard in that clip. But I don't suppose they would ever do that.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 30/04/2018 11:02

@terryleather write instead? My SNP MSP was utterly suprised by who the trans umbrella now includes & could see the dangers. I honestly think we need to catch up on the squeaky wheel trick the TRAs are using.

terryleather · 30/04/2018 11:11

@Waddlelikeapenguin

I did write a while back when the proposed changes to the GRA were being mooted but did not get a reply.

However maybe it's time to write again with the trans umbrella info as you suggest, I agree that it's a good way of helping people to see just who is now regarded as trans..

Waddlelikeapenguin · 30/04/2018 11:39

@terryleather Yeah I suspect my 'come in to discuss' reply was in hope of me not going! My MP hasnt replied & neither has another MSP, I still have some of my MSPs to write to. It's very frustrating!
The other angle which i need to write to mine on is the shutting down of debate/lack of public awareness- i would hope they would feel they had to reply to a letter saying we were being excluded from the political process...

OllyBJolly · 30/04/2018 12:10

I'm on holiday that week so can't attend.

What I'm seeing amongst my facebook friends - who are of all political persuasions and include MPs and MSPs as well as party workers - a growing realisation that a bit of a mess has been created here. This is largely being driven by two individuals who are posting the Janice Turner articles etc and then very eloquently arguing the case. Unfortunately they are both London based.

Disappointingly, the Women for Indy group appear to be completely rejecting any discussion on the topic.

Ereshkigal · 30/04/2018 13:58

Send them the Wings Over Scotland poll showing that the Scots people they polled in all demographics weren't in favour of self ID.