Why is sex the only protected characteristic that people want to, or are ‘allowed’ to, self identify into? by

[SingleSexMattersInCharity]

This has been something that I mull over. Why is sex the only PC that society allows people to self id into with very little checks and balances? You can get your marker on your driving licence changed very easily.

disability: yes, I realise that people can self identify as disabled but if they want benefits associated with disability there is, quite frankly, a horrendous procedure to go through in order get benefits.

Age: if someone wanted to be older to get pension they wouldn’t be accepted or alternatively if they wanted to attend nursery but were 20 they would not be allowed. Think of the Scottish case of the man who pretended to be younger to be in high school again.

maternity: women who fake pregnancy are absolutely derided.

race: we all think of the obvious case of the women who faked being black but I’m also thinking about when you want to change your citizenship and the expensive, complicated and time consuming process you have to go through to achieve a change of citizenship.

Campaigners have fought for easy, cheap and dignified changes to “changing sex” (not possible as we know) but other PCs have very expensive, complicated and dehumanising process.

why is the PC of sex different?

lol I’d never look but if you told me and a dr gave me a letter saying you had one and he’d seen it I’d take his word for it

I’ve started a thread please come and talk there, I don’t want to derail this thread

Transwomen do not have female parts. That's not something a surgeon can provide them with.

But that's my original point - people self identify as different races all the time. Would your grandparents really be horrified if you or your siblings started to identify more strongly with their black or Indian heritage through the way they dress, talk, eat, the culture they consume etc? Because that would be unusual and most grandparents in that situation would be proud. You could also argue that with Black and Indian heritage by solely identifying with a white European identify your younger family members are self identifying their race. Black face is also less about self identification and more about mocking people with darker skin colours. Race is fluid, and our understanding of it is largely a social construct rather than a biological fact.

Not sure a dr has seen it TBH.

Self-ID is important because it affects perception of the individual by others.

So, a man who looks like a woman is entitled not to be discriminated against as to sex, both by people who know he's a man, and people who think he's a woman.

But he still can't go to a women's prison, because the Prisons Act requires them to be single-sex.

And he still can't use a Schedule 3 women's service, because the exemption from liability for sex-discrimination, provided by Schedule 3, only applies to single-sex services, and his presence stops the service from being single-sex.

Schedule 3 provides an exemption for perceptive sex-discrimination too. For instance you can exclude a transman for good reason (para 28 - eg her appearance will frighten other users).

Haha I lost that dignity both times I gave birth

I dont think there was a dr in the room when I gave birth.

Either way you said "to me if you have breasts and a vagina you look like a woman" and you don't actually know by looking if someone has a vagina.

You are incorrectly sexing lady boys and forcing your gender ideology onto them
by calling them trans women. That’s literal death to the trans lobby.

Sex is the only protected characteristice that is immutable.

Age changes
Disability can change
Sexuality can change
Marital status can change
Pregnancy changes
Religion can change
Gender reassignment has never been explained
Race identity can vary
but
Sex is determined at conception and never changes

No I didn’t call them trans women. I’m trying to follow your logic and language cjoices but it confuses but it’s not ones I would use naturally. Not calling lady boys trans. Just men that look like converionally attractive women

You’re right, I don’t. But if they tell me I believe them. If they ask to be called a woman becuase of this I say ok.

Took you long enough!

Haha well it’s live and we can direct people here.

enjoy your trans bashing thread. I can’t and won’t abuse people for how they look or keep explaining basic points.

i think trans people are vulnerable and I think women are vulnerable and I thought this was a respectful discussion about why we need pcs. But clearly I came to the wrong place!
enjoy your hate I’m opting out.

You’ve no idea how much I love this list. All that being true WHY TF is sex the PC that has compaigns out to allow wide spread societal, moral and legal acceptance of self ID?

I just don’t get it.

This is not a trans bashing thread. This is a thread asking why sex is the PC that seems to be the most acceptable to self ID into.

It’s interesting to me that you view that question as “trans bashing”

I view saying that trans people look like ‘men with tits’ is repulsive yes and I don’t want to be involved in it.
im sick of the hatred and aggression for having different viewpoints to some of you. Some of you are so disrespectful. The internet is forever and I don’t want to be associated with comments like that, even anonymously.
Enjoy your hate

Having stood in a food queue with a load of Ladyboys of Bangkok
(they were performing in Brighton and I was there for the day)
they are most definitely blokes.
Small, lean, young
but blokes
who put on makeup and stage outfits to perform.

I've heard lectures from Forensic Psychiatrists about men who rape, and also about men who abuse children.

Chemical castration* medication has been used to stop these men's sexual urges.
Many/most still go on to reoffend. They go on to attack again, sexually assault again, sexually abuse children again.

Not having a penis doesn't mean that men are no risk.

And as mentioned by a previous poster, vulnerable men can ALSO be dangerous men.

*some of the medications used for chemical castration are also used as a puberty blockers

"and yes once a man no longer has a penis he can’t legally rape. That’s an entirely problematic British law that doesn’t help with lebsian violence or women committing statutory rape but that’s another discussion entirely"

That (assaults by women) is really NOT the main problem with the legal definition of rape!

When people talk about "nuance", or "it's complex", it's very often because they're trying to find a way to describe men as a type of woman.

Google Barbie Kardashian and then come back and lecture us some more.

Or don't know how to explain the inexplicable. Easier to say 'it's all nuanced or complicated'
It isn't complicated
It isn't nuanced
We know this
Preferred pronouns are problematic: we are being asked to believe in gender identity and reject the evidence in front of our eyes. It isn't a neutral act.

confused: if you really want more information, there are some good threads on here including one called " break it down for me"
And a TW doesn't have a vagina-we also know this. It is a surgically constructed opening. Again, if you want more information, I'm sure the internet would help.

And if you think TW should be in women's prisons for 'safety' then small men, effeminate men, gentle men, disabled men should also be 'allowed' in. Why not? After all, they're vulnerable

TP are not more marginalised or vulnerable than any other groups.
Which group of people are more vulnerable and most at risk from male violence?
Oh yeah- that'd be women (and girls) The biological sexed kind.
But privacy and dignity are important too. It's not all about safety, important as that is.

As I have tried to explain, in order to use wrong sex pronouns, I have to over-ride my normal English language use and pretend the person I am referring to is the opposite sex to what they materially are.

That is difficult for most people at some level if they can perceive the actual sex of the person that is being referred to. It is a big cognitive dissonance.

It is not the same as using a different given name.

You are asking everyone to override the norms of their native language to signal that they are willing to pretend that someone has changed sex.

Pronouns have evolved to be a useful shorthand and refer to the usually obvious characteristic of sex. You are asking that we change a major function of naturally evolved language to reference someone’s “gender identity” which exists in someone’s head and is not necessarily externally perceptible.

You can’t force this onto everyone. Sexed pronouns are more useful in day to day communication as used by the vast majority of the population.

Trans people are often mentally vulnerable.

This does not mean that trans women in particular are not also capable of doing physical damage to others.

It does not mean we should pretend they are really women in some mysterious way, and allow them into places where biological women should expect privacy, dignity and safety from the opposite sex.

Being vulnerable does not mean someone is guaranteed not to be a danger to others.

You are confusing two things.