Why is sex the only protected characteristic that people want to, or are ‘allowed’ to, self identify into? by

[SingleSexMattersInCharity]

This has been something that I mull over. Why is sex the only PC that society allows people to self id into with very little checks and balances? You can get your marker on your driving licence changed very easily.

disability: yes, I realise that people can self identify as disabled but if they want benefits associated with disability there is, quite frankly, a horrendous procedure to go through in order get benefits.

Age: if someone wanted to be older to get pension they wouldn’t be accepted or alternatively if they wanted to attend nursery but were 20 they would not be allowed. Think of the Scottish case of the man who pretended to be younger to be in high school again.

maternity: women who fake pregnancy are absolutely derided.

race: we all think of the obvious case of the women who faked being black but I’m also thinking about when you want to change your citizenship and the expensive, complicated and time consuming process you have to go through to achieve a change of citizenship.

Campaigners have fought for easy, cheap and dignified changes to “changing sex” (not possible as we know) but other PCs have very expensive, complicated and dehumanising process.

why is the PC of sex different?

You need to think through the male trans people who will have completely different motives and reasons for declaring they are women/girls and the female ones who declare they are men/boys.

Lumping the middle aged AGPs or polyculers together with girls petrified of the behaviour of men and boys is half the story as to how we ended up in this mess in the first place.

Who’s known for not having a brain?
im talking about balancing the rights of two very vulnerable group and why it gives me a headache with fellow feminists. Why am I a straw man for that?

Prisons already have systems to protect vulnerable men. They need to use and refine those.

Can you explain your second paragraph a bit more please if you are able and willing to? I don’t really understand what you’re saying.

The straw man is the assertion that we are condoning rape. It would be terrible if we were. But we're not.

ETA I did look for 'straw man': the results all related to drinking straws!

good i would hope no one is but unfortunately a lot of prison culture does. You watch any police show and they say things like ‘the prisoners will teach you a lesson’ etc. I feel putting someone who looks like a woman into a male space knowing the risks kind of is; and I’d like to ask ethically where you stand on this.
i never said anyone was doing it. But I felt by not acknowledging this risk you inadvertently were.

The last castrato died in 1922, there must have been quite a lot around in 1813.

The first known "trans" surgeries weren't until the 1920s/30s, Lili Elbe being one of the first.

Whilst I know these this I'm not sure of the differences (if any) between the surgeries.

I agree and I also think Gender Reassignment should not be a PC. It should have come under a special need within disability.

Which male prisoners 'look like a woman'?

Regarding DSDs, individuals with CAIS, PAIS, and 5-ARD who are registered female at birth (or who retroactively correct their birth registration to female following feminisation treatment) are legally biologically female and would go to a women's prison. The exclusion of some of them from the female class in elite gender-affected sport isn't about their "real sex" but the safety and fairness issues associated with their early life exposure to androgens and its persistent physiological results.

The ones who’ve had surgery and call themselves women but you refuse to call women.

But any more beautiful, lithe, younger man would be seen as attractive to prison rapists.

He wouldn’t have the same target a trans woman who’s had surgery would though?

Like Alan "Sarah Jane" Baker, you mean? Who castrated himself while in prison? This doesn't stop him being a violent, threatening man and a raging misogynist, with no place in women's prisons.

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/incitement-to-violence-at-trans-pride/

Ha ha, I know a man who had the full genital surgery. He now looks like... a man in a wig.

Should I start the thread about my issue with the uk legal definition of rape? You’re proving my point here.

I’m not going to engage with you because I’m here for respectful discussion of a complex ethical issue and you are not.
im not a tra but im also not a terf. But also identify as a feminist. I’m here to have a discussion not abuse other people for how they look

Do you have any photos of these men?

It is you that said they 'look like women'. I've never seen a man that looks like a woman so you need to provide your evidence.

Go on instagram and have a look. Some trans women are incredibly beautiful. They have the money for surgery and it’s worked. It’s crazy what you can do with money these days.

What point is it you think that has been proven here?

Go on instagram. Look at some trans women. Thailand especially. You’ve never seen a ‘lady boy‘?!

Pronouns are not owned by individuals, they are part of the English language (and other languages as well, with different conditions governing their use).

The English language evolved so we use “he” to refer to a male person and “she” to refer to a female person. We use “they” for a group of people, and also to refer to a person whose sex we don’t know.

This is how people have grown up using pronouns from when they first learned to speak; they are part of the language of the person speaking. They enable us to communicate clearly about who we are referring to. We can tell the sex of other people in the vast majority of situations.

For many people, it feels like a lie at a very deep level to use wrong-sexed pronouns.

Pronouns do not belong to the person being referred to, they are part of the naturally evolved language of the speaker. They are being used as a proxy for saying “I will agree to pretend you are the opposite sex, or pretend that I and everyone here can’t correctly identify your sex”.

That is a deeper request than “just call me he”. Your friend is asking people to pretend.

They have filters.

However I was talking about prisoners. Not instagram influencers who use filters for clicks.

I’m with the poster re their comment of you faux naiveté. It would just be a second male category for sub par athletes.

But why not have an Olympic category of I believe I am a fairy or I believe I am reincarted or I believe I am twin spirit.