Why is sex the only protected characteristic that people want to, or are ‘allowed’ to, self identify into? by

[SingleSexMattersInCharity]

This has been something that I mull over. Why is sex the only PC that society allows people to self id into with very little checks and balances? You can get your marker on your driving licence changed very easily.

disability: yes, I realise that people can self identify as disabled but if they want benefits associated with disability there is, quite frankly, a horrendous procedure to go through in order get benefits.

Age: if someone wanted to be older to get pension they wouldn’t be accepted or alternatively if they wanted to attend nursery but were 20 they would not be allowed. Think of the Scottish case of the man who pretended to be younger to be in high school again.

maternity: women who fake pregnancy are absolutely derided.

race: we all think of the obvious case of the women who faked being black but I’m also thinking about when you want to change your citizenship and the expensive, complicated and time consuming process you have to go through to achieve a change of citizenship.

Campaigners have fought for easy, cheap and dignified changes to “changing sex” (not possible as we know) but other PCs have very expensive, complicated and dehumanising process.

why is the PC of sex different?

That rape laws shouldn’t be limited to penises but instead focused on consent, with statutory rape laws like the US.

Is it worth worrying about? The penalties for rape and for other serious sexual assaults, including by penetration, are the same. Failing to distinguish the type of assault is needlessly obscurantist.

If there’s a demand and people would watch it why not indeed?

lady boys know they are boys - they don’t think they are trans anything

stop forcing your ideology onto people

I will do some thinking and start my own post in the feminism board and we can engage there. I think it is. But I don’t want to derail this thread.

I’m not forcing my ideology onto you. I’m questioning your opinions that don’t match mine. I don’t understand why you need to be rude to me.
i think balancing the needs of vulnerable groups is an ethical minefield. I’m discussing it here. That’s not forcing my ideology onto you. Do you want an echo chamber or an actual discussion? Becuase it feels like you just want me to validate all your points without a real discussion.

But you could apply this argument to nouns, and when I got married you could, using this logic, refuse to call me by my maiden name then? But you wouldn’t.
so why is this different?

Again, do you have any evidence that any male prisoner 'looks like a woman'?

i realise legal process around citizenship are completely separate to race. I explained it was the closest comparison I could find.

society is very against people identifying as a race they are not and yet it’s probably the most fluid thing of all. I have family with black heritage and family with Indian heritage. They all look white. Despite their heritage being close (grandparents). I know people would be horrified with them if they decided to claim to be black/Indian and would accuse them of “black/brown face” as they are so white BUT they are actually black/indian! My sister has promised to take her grandfather’s ashes to the Ganges one day.

You didn’t ask me that. You asked for conventionally attractive trans women. I sent you to a place where you’d find lots.

Nope I did not.

I asked 'Which male prisoners 'look like a woman'?'

You said 'The ones who’ve had surgery and call themselves women but you refuse to call women.'

So I asked if you had any photos of these men, the prisoners who looked like women, which is who you say should be put into female jails.

And apparently your answer is 'instagram ladyboys'. So no you don't have any examples of male prisoners who 'look like women'.

oh good lord. So you measure trans women by how they fit arguably peadophillic sexist beauty standards? Rather than if they’ve had surgery to have female parts? These are the ones I’m talking about.
I can’t find any ‘sexy’ trans women prisoners and I’m not googling it because it will take me to porn.

Engage with me or not, I don't care. I'm just disputing your claim that full genital surgery can either make a man into a woman, or make him look like a woman. And in the case of the fragrant Alan Barker, castration certainly hasn't made him behave like a woman.

I can’t find any ‘sexy’ trans women prisoners
In other words, you can’t find any trans women prisoners who don't continue to look unmistakably male.

I don't I view all men as men.

I asked you because YOU seem to value men as women if they look like women.

I made the post about the legal definition of rape if you’re interested. Come and argue about this there!!

I never said this. I said I’m ok with self identification labels and will use whatever pronoun I’m asked to

Lots of women who were born women look like men. What’s your point??

I think this is the key point:

'Sex is different because it intersects with things that are sex-segregated:

• Sport
• Prisons
• Refuges
• Toilets
• Changing rooms
• Data collection
• Healthcare
• Single-sex charities and services

No other protected characteristic affects physical categories and single-sex spaces in the same way.'

There was a similar issue where there was/is racial segregation, as segregation was intended to deny one group the advantages of the other. But when a black person endeavoured to pass as white, they didn't argue that it was their right to 'feel' white and that everyone else should believe it, regardless of whether they 'looked' white or not. If they did, I doubt they would have got the same support and acceptance that Transwomen do now. So why is one acceptable, and one not?

I asked 'Which male prisoners 'look like a woman'?'
You said 'The ones who’ve had surgery and call themselves women but you refuse to call women.

You can just check your own posts if you are confused about that as well

Yes that answered your question, to me if you have breasts and a vagina you look like a woman.
this isn’t hard

Yeah no they don't.

Mate, men with boob jobs look like men with boob jobs.

Our laws differentiate between penetration with a penis and penetration with other objects as well as non penetrative offences. It doesn’t make one act more serious or traumatic than the other.

How TF would you know if I have a vagina? You know, seeing as its inside my body. Gross.