Why is sex the only protected characteristic that people want to, or are ‘allowed’ to, self identify into? by

[SingleSexMattersInCharity]

This has been something that I mull over. Why is sex the only PC that society allows people to self id into with very little checks and balances? You can get your marker on your driving licence changed very easily.

disability: yes, I realise that people can self identify as disabled but if they want benefits associated with disability there is, quite frankly, a horrendous procedure to go through in order get benefits.

Age: if someone wanted to be older to get pension they wouldn’t be accepted or alternatively if they wanted to attend nursery but were 20 they would not be allowed. Think of the Scottish case of the man who pretended to be younger to be in high school again.

maternity: women who fake pregnancy are absolutely derided.

race: we all think of the obvious case of the women who faked being black but I’m also thinking about when you want to change your citizenship and the expensive, complicated and time consuming process you have to go through to achieve a change of citizenship.

Campaigners have fought for easy, cheap and dignified changes to “changing sex” (not possible as we know) but other PCs have very expensive, complicated and dehumanising process.

why is the PC of sex different?

Of course the surgery existed! How hard is it to chop off a penis?! It may not have been hygienic or done with pain relief but I bet they were still doing it.

What about men who lose their genitalia through accidents or disease? Do they become women?

Do you think men who have no male genitals are incapable of sexual assault?

Male prisoners can be old, young, weak, ill, disabled, gay, trans, police, gang members, mentally ill, or known pædophiles. In 1813 there were probably still a few eunuchs (operatic castrati or slaves). They all need protection. And they're all men. Why are they the women's problem?

Quite hard actually: there’s lots of risk of infection and bleeding out. It would be insane to do that pre antibiotics and anaesthetic.
again this is very nuanced and why I say case by case assessment and third space options.
and yes once a man no longer has a penis he can’t legally rape. That’s an entirely problematic British law that doesn’t help with lebsian violence or women committing statutory rape but that’s another discussion entirely

You say this but funnily enough hasn’t happened in sports.
it would be interesting to pilot no?

They did. Nobody entered.

You really need to get more up with what has actually happened outside your queer bubble.

We have to practise what we preach: we need to protect the most vulnerable in society. Even the ones we feel disdain for

We’re saying the same thing - there wasn’t the demand. I’m saying it would be interesting to see if the same thing happened in prisons. By your logic it would because they all want to hurt women

I realise race is different to citizenship, I was thinking of the legal processes too. There are legal processes to identify as a different sex. There are legal processes to identify as parents (adoption). The closest I could get for race was the legal processes to identify as a citizen.

I got onto the legal processes because of the claims made about the process for legal sex identity change being expensive, lacking dignity, time consuming etc. Other legal processes are all of those.

Are you saying that you feel disdain for the different classes of male prisoner that I listed? You certainly might for a pædophile, but he still needs protection. He still has human rights.

Yes this is exactly what I’m saying.
i feel complete and utter revulsion at the criminals you mentioned hurting women in prisons but equally I don’t think they deserve to be raped. And it’s not because I think that morally or whatever - I think it’s just a slippery slope when you start condoning it in any circumstances and we need to protect women and girls

A lot of surgery took place pre antibiotics and anaesthetic. Arguably it was all 'insane'.
The rape law isn't problematic. Its specificity is deliberate, because assault with a penis carries its own unique threats and risks.

From knowing people who were abused by a woman and the law didn’t call it what it was, I found it very hard to come to terms with 😢 in the us they have statutory rape. I think that would be quite protective in the uk.

Saying men shouldn't be in womens prisons is not the same as saying that these men all deserve to be raped. You should apply some of that nuance that you are so fond of.

the law didn’t call it what it was
No, the law DOES call it what it is.

No but saying people with a dsd who don’t have penises should be in a men’s prison might be. And I think it’s worth looking at both sides because like I said, what you do to one you do to the other

Did this woman have a penis?

I’m not going to share the story as it’s not mine to share but it involves a woman having sex with someone who was too young to consent. In my book that is rape. I don’t like calling it sexual abuse. I do think that silences what the victim went through.

No but she had sex with someone who couldn’t consent. What do you call that?

Men with DSDs belong in men's prison and women with DSDs belong in womens prisons (if convicted of a crime)

People with DSDs are either male or female

And third spaces to protect these people just isn’t an option?

I think third spaces for prisons is probably impractical but im not against it in principal.

The problem is that any suggestion of third spaces is shouted down as othering and transphobic by TRAs

ETA I'm not sure why you think people with DSDs should be treated differently to the general population

I don't think the term 'sexual abuse' silences anything. It is just as abhorrent as rape.

thats what I mean. It’s so nuanced and about balancing rights and dignity for everyone. I can’t be transphobic because of this and I do take issue with both sides (terfs and aggressive tras) because no you can’t just demand the right to women’s spaces but equally gender dysphoria and dsds are issues that will cause people distress if just ignored or dismissed.

Why are you conflating people with DSDs and trans people?

I'm glad that you now agree that men should not be in womens prisons.

I agree but rape is rape and if someone has sex with you without your consent but you can’t legally call it that that’s a problem