Men who affirm TW

[Holdmeclosertinydancer2018]

This is something I've wondered for a while and a post from a woman on FB asking/stating the same thing prompted me to ask everyone's opinions on this.

I have noticed a large proportion of Trans Idealogues on both FB and Reddit go absolutely berserk when someone points out that TW are not, in fact women, but oddly, a large proportion of them are men.

Now I completely understand the women that have bought into this notion as women generally speaking tend to be more empathetic for their fellow human so are more likely to go along with 'be kind'. But what about the swathes of seemingly normal, gender conforming men that support it? I don't know a single man other than one in real life (who's daughter is apparently now a 'she') that support the idea that TW are women. What is their motive for this?

that just sounds to me like an excuse for bad behaviour.

Your DH is either a billionaire or he can lick his own eyebrows.

The Communist Party ( surely left if anyone is) don't think men can be women ( or vice versa). Also plenty of women ( and men btw) in the Labour Party don't either.

The Greens maybe ( you'll have to ask them) don't believe that it is just another way of fractioning the fight against capitalism like the above do.

'One is workers' unity and ever more shall be so', as the ( revolutionary) song' goes.

And I get that for "the woman in the street" but it is unforgivable amongst women whose jobs are entirely about looking at things on a system wide basis or about knowing where sex realky matters. The NHS is awash with people like this. How exactly do you plan for maternity services if you're prepared to gather statistics based on 'gender' or 'gender identity'? People whose job is to encourage women from disadvantaged cohorts to take up cervical screening who think it's mean to use the term woman and use 'cervix haver' even though we have tons of research that shows that language excludes for example women with learning difficulties

women like those running girl guides for example or the women's institute who are falling g over themselves to apologise ti men that they can't be members anymore and twisting themselves into pretzels yo see how they can appease them

these are professional educated women who bloody well should know better

This one, perchance?

I think what you’re getting at is that many women won’t encounter men in their changing rooms & so don’t think about it at all or consider it a big deal. Divide the amount of headspace the average woman gives this by about a billion and that’s the amount of consideration your average man (however much of a leftie NAMLT feminist ally he likes to think is) will give to what that experience - or any other experience, for that matter - might be like for a woman.

I have twice in my life encountered someone undeniably male in a women’s only space - once in a mental health centre for women where the individual in question was verbally abusive and threatened violence, and another time in the fitting room of a clothing shop, where the person was nothing but courteous, and obviously quite self-conscious - but it still felt unsettling to me, in light of the earlier experience, and I ended up feeling like I needed to smile and seem friendly so this person wouldn’t feel uncomfortable, even though I did.

I don't make the rules, I'm just highlighting that there are a lot of men on the left who say twaw.

I agree.

Short answer, they regard women as nothing more than support humans who shouldn't be allowed to have opinions. Men affirm TWAW because it doesn't affect them and they don't give a shit that it affects women.

Longer answer, they're misogynists who really dislike women and all this has given them the perfect atmosphere to scream abuse at women while being applauded for being 'progressive' and 'kind'.

It is, as I've been saying for years, a misogynist's wet dream.

A poem of mine from UTDOD -

A misogynist's wet dream

Men,
Who lurked for such a short while as 'good guys'
Now have free rein.

Unleashed, they say all they wanted to but couldn't.
Bitch, witch, ugly, old, bigot, terf, frigid, cold.

Sheer orgasmic pleasure at 'telling those bitches'
While society cheers them on.

'Decapitate terfs' above a smirk.
Screaming 'witch' from above.
Forced smiles on a podium.

It was always there. Under the surface.
Seething but contained.

But now? They can say, self righteously,

'Burn the witch!'

Sorry if this has been said earlier in the thread but it is obvious.

TRAs have only been so sucessful because it builds on the foundations of our society, MRAs. ie Men's rights.

Of course if a man makes a claim it is right. And even more is he right if a woman or women tells him he is wrong.

Although a lot has been written about how the queering of Stonewall helped launch the growth of trans rights, the reality is it is part of the male backlash against women.

70s feminism ie Women's Liberation was built on the political understanding that men as a sex class dominated and discriminated against the sex class of women.

What better way to undermine that analysis than to say sex isn't real, as it is more important is to recognise someone's identity.

Not only does trans politics deny women's biological reality, it allows men to identify out of being part of the dominant sex class.

And they have the halo of being on the "politically correct! movement.

According to Stonewall, the Guardian, politicians, schools, etc., etc..

Because they look down on TW as inferior, just like they look down on women and so to some men,TW are the 'same' as women in terms of respect or value... even thought biologically distinct.

If a man believes there are only two possible categories, his superior one as a 'man' and another inferior one, he defaults to TW belonging in the other category.

Yep, just another handy stick to beat uppity women with.

To be honest, woman will never have a consensus on this.

I am repelled by GC arguments which seem to lack love and care for fellow humans who they don't necessarily agree with.

There is no concern for trans people's needs. The solution doesn't have to be transwomen in all women's spaces no matter what. But I think we should be able to create women + transwomen friendly spaces/groups. As long as it's disclosed, I don't get the argument against this. GC would like to exclude TW from ALL things for women. I won't ever agree with that because above all, they are human and deserve to have their needs taken into consideration.

I know several trans people and the mental and physical health implications of not receiving proper treatment can be great. GC people seem unconcerned with this entirely and just want trans people to conform to their own desires. Their health will continue to be a concern for those of us with friends and family going through it. Right now, transition is the most effective treatment.

GC continue to use language that denies the existence of trans people. They do exist. We have a word for it. Transwoman is a specific label for a biological male who chooses to present as a woman. Continuing to deny their existence won't make inroads with those of us who care for our trans friends and family.

GC people also completely misunderstand the argument about sex and gender. No one (who is thinking logically and understands science) thinks you can change your biological sex which is determined by chromosomes. Gender is considered more culturally influenced and fluid. Strong sex based norms are the reason why gender is considered different than sex. As long as we expect genitals alone to dictate appearance, personality, and access to services this will not change. People do not do well shoved into a box they don't fit.

Sex: male, female, intersex. Gender: Cis man, Cis woman, non binary, transman, transwoman. They are different categories. I can see an objection with calling a transwoman female, but women is a gender term.

The propaganda about dangerous transwoman is so exaggerated and obviously political. I have never felt in danger around a transwoman. Single examples are overblown. Exposure bias. Look it up.

Also the claim that people can always tell when someone is trans just denies basic logic. How would you identify the people who "pass"? You would see them, perceive them as a woman because you don't have X-ray vision, and dismiss them. It's basic logic that you don't know what you don't know.

I won't be debating any of my points. I wanted to offer my perspective since these discussions are always dominated by a single POV

"They are human and deserve to have those needs taken into consideration"
I am not denying they are human, but they are make human and have male human needs.

"A biological male who chooses to present as a woman". So Transvestites/crossdressers then. Also male.

It's almost impressive how many you managed to hit!

Bonus points for 'I'm not debating this' - 'no debate' continues unabated!

Also, we don't see them as a woman at all. Even the more 'passable' ones don't pass because women instinctively pick up on things like male structure, posture, gait etc. Granted there have been times when I've had to double take, but I've only done so because my gut was screaming at me, INSTINCTIVELY that something was not quite right with that 'woman'.

Also, we don't see them as a woman at all. Even the more 'passable' ones don't pass because women instinctively pick up on things like male structure, posture, gait etc. Granted there have been times when I've had to double take, but I've only done so because my gut was screaming at me, INSTINCTIVELY that something was not quite right with that 'woman'.

It was a lot of words to say "beeee kiiiiind" wasn't it

Its a fun new way to attack and abuse women on line imo - they don't give a shit about TW at all!

@helenwaspushed Do you believe the women who have been attacked by TW and the children they have abused?

Generally interested if anyone has experienced these opinions with men IRL, and not just on social media where virtue signalling is the utmost priority.

Men in the public eye will virtue signal, but that's no different to the climate change activism that sees celebrities use private jets to inform the world about CO2 emissions.

Excellent question. Only one, the brother of one of my oldest friends who stated that 'TWAW and this is the hill he is willing to die on'.

He turned up at my friends house two weeks ago while I was there having a wine noght , marveling at his 'daughter', using the word 'she' and 'her' whilst his 19 year old son sat next to me in a skirt, tights, a hoody, sporting a humongous beard.

I'm not sure your views are entirely in alignment with those of the trans community.
Many 'transwomen' (they like a space BTW rather than all one word) do indeed believe that the medications they take and the surgeries they undergo change their sex. They disagree with you on the importance of chromosomes, believing they are a small part of what dictates sex. They increasingly reject (regret) the idea that 'gender' is seperate from sex (since it became clear that rights depend on sex not gender) and believe they are as much a woman as you are.
Either you believe this, that TWAW, in which case, what is your logic for excluding them from some women's spaces?
Or you believe that TW are men. In which case, what is your logic for including them in any women's spaces?
Because there is no grey meet in the middle compromise here. Either TWAW or TW are men.

Lucky it’s not up to him how you feel or what you think eh?

Lots of men think in terms of women spaces and forget that these spaces are for girls, too.

This idea that some men pass as women, sex and gender are different, men have always wanted to be women, are never used to justify why these men should be using changing rooms and toilets with young girls.

Why is it important for eddie izzard to use the same spaces as girls?