Men who affirm TW

[Holdmeclosertinydancer2018]

This is something I've wondered for a while and a post from a woman on FB asking/stating the same thing prompted me to ask everyone's opinions on this.

I have noticed a large proportion of Trans Idealogues on both FB and Reddit go absolutely berserk when someone points out that TW are not, in fact women, but oddly, a large proportion of them are men.

Now I completely understand the women that have bought into this notion as women generally speaking tend to be more empathetic for their fellow human so are more likely to go along with 'be kind'. But what about the swathes of seemingly normal, gender conforming men that support it? I don't know a single man other than one in real life (who's daughter is apparently now a 'she') that support the idea that TW are women. What is their motive for this?

These men are ignorant. Genderism was started and indulged by male doctors, sexologists and psychologists (beginning in the early 20th century). It might be a cause espoused by Third Wave feminists nowadays but it was started by men.

His name was Robin Green and I found this old screenshot.

This concept is so foreign to me. Standing up and fighting (and my God do they fight over this) for something that you don't inherently believe in to just seems so pointless. No wonder so many are struggling with their identities these days, when people are pushing for things that go against theor own personal truths. Absolute cowards, the lot of them.

I’ve found on social media that when it comes to it, even more right leaning men who think transgenderism is ludicrous will often play it off against women and feminism, because that’s much more fun for them.

👏

This is hilarious. What an idiot.

I’ve discussed this at length with DH who is ND and, to his own mind, very ‘justice-sensitive’ and an all-or-nothing thinker.

Which I think would put him firmly in the category of men most likely to respond in a hectoring and mansplainy way on the internet.

What it seems to come down to for him is this:

1. To claim anything other than TWAW is to get in bed with the far right and endorse literally everything Reform and Donald Trump stand for, including bombing schools and removing women’s right to vote. So to express any form of gender scepticism - whatever your views may be on other topics - is functionally equivalent to racism, xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia and fascism.
2. He is personally offended by the assumption that men as a category pose a threat to women and children, and this feeling of insult bothers him more than violence against women, because it affects him and means that people might misunderstand him or be unfriendly to him
3. he can’t relate to women’s fear of encountering a man in single sex spaces, because he’s not a woman, and he is just not all that interested in what women might experience because it’s unlikely ever to happen to him and is therefore irrelevant.

I’ve given up trying to talk with him about it, as he clearly thinks my mildly expressed desire for the construction of more toilets and changing rooms and the funding of a wider variety of refuges and crisis centres so that everyone can be accommodated safely and comfortably can only mean I’ve been radicalised by far right extremists.

It does, and I think often that’s why they hate open non believers (like “terfs”) so much, because they are worried about being exposed themselves as not really believing in it or understanding it, when they are called upon to make a case for these beliefs. Why are they worried? Because they’ve seen what happens to others. Who would want to be socially shunned?

It’s just a really cheap and easy way for them display woke credentials which costs them absolutely nothing as it doesn’t really have any impact on men.

I think that would be a dealbreaker for me.

Simpler put, it’s just men ganging up against women. Nothing new.

It’s one of many - but to feel that way makes me ableist as well, apparently.

I think the charitable take on that is that some people (and feminist women who believe TWAW are usually big on this) think that any attempt at separation based on biology is anti feminist, because its the very essence of defining, grouping and 'limiting' people by their sex.
They seem to naively hold the view that if we dispense with the idea of fixed sex altogether, we dispense with the cause of our oppression.
Just as we need to know what a woman is in order to know which people to oppress, if there is no longer a fixed state of being a woman, there won't be a group to oppress.
So yes, I do think that some people are coming at this from a skewed and deeply flawed off shoot of feminism.

I find it hard that people are so rigid in their zealotry against people who simply disbelieve in a fairly implausible belief that most people have only had for a decade at most.

Do you have daughters and if so does he not have any concern or respect for them and yourself as women? I'll be honest and say I would really struggle to live with this. Credit where credits due, at least he's got the balls to say what most men likely think but still...

Going back to the FB comments on the post suggesting straight men should date TW, it was so interesting to see men up in arms now that the situation affects them (not that it will of course as no man will be forced to date a TW). They'll gladly sit back amd watch women suffer and only fight back when it affects them. Depressing.

This is such an interesting perspective, thank you.

Ironically, these types of Feminists have only furthered womens oppression by helping to remove female sex as a class and has allowed men into our safe spaces, thereby contributing to ongoing oppression of women.

So, the men that post 'Feminism' are kind of correct.

I remember a Guardian article ages ago which suggested the same. The response was similarly outraged, even though other articles featuring “trans lesbians” had passed without similar comment.

I don't want men in women's spaces but at the same time I wouldnt say it is an important issue to me. To be honest, I don't think I've ever worried or been fearful about encountering a man in a women's bathroom (maybe because it has never happened to me). If it is something you never see or experience it then it is unlikely to be something you think about. Also I am not a feminist either so that may be partly why.

I think it's probably both.

It's fair to say that most people - especially men - who are vocal supporters of / allies to those causes that don't directly affect them personally come from the middle and educated classes in our society.
Some seem to wear it as a badge; others seem to consider it a duty that comes with their comparatively comfortable position.

But on this particular topic, I do think sex also plays a huge part, but so too do societal gender norms. Or, at least, most men's perceptions of societal gender norms and what is expected of them as a result.

With all due respect, it's not about the impact on each individual woman. Surely, as a woman you can appreciate the amount of time it took women historically to get into the workplace and be granted safe spaces to use the toilet and undress away from the risk of sexual assault/violence from men?

Too many women just don't see the bigger picture here. All those years spent to gain safe, private spaces from men and within the space of ten years, they've clawed them back.

It tends to be lefties (I'm one, but don't buy in) and there is rather a lot of misogyny amongst left leaning blokes, especially the far left.
Don't understand it myself.

I understand that from a conceptual point. But most people don't think in terms of feminist theory. They think in terms of what directly affects their lives. Honestly it is very easy to forget this that issue exists if you never see a man in a women's space, just saying.

I think in some cases there is a naivety as well. Some people go along with it believing that it’s “being kind“ or whatever else and that makes them feel good about their image. However those people haven’t read much about the issue or understand the actual implications of saying things like TW are women.
i would imagine a lot of these men have the same view as Relationship Purposes Robin if truth be told .

Oh I completely agree with you.

I've been interested in womens lib, the sexual revolution etc personally for years anyway so am always sensitive to the possibility of rights being taken away. What really did it for me though was becoming a huge fan of The Handmaids Tale, where June states that 'it didn't happen all at once' and alludes to the loss of womens rights being a slow, subtle process. Since then I've been on the lookout for any insidious movement or societal attitude that could be part of that not happening all at once and here we are. It hasn't happened all at once, but they are certainly trying. Very, very hard.

Basically this. It's a badge that doesn't cost anything but lets everyone know how "right on" they are. It's also a way of putting the age old misogynistic boot firmly into women without actually looking as if that's what they're doing.