How do navigate things with older/adult dc who are pro-trans ideology if you are not?

[Fancycrab]

Just wondering those of you who are GC and have teenagers or young adult dc who strongly support trans ideology, how do you navigate this? Do you just agree not to discuss it? Does it ever interfere with your relationship? My DD is still little but her dad, who I’m separated from is very pro trans rights and believes the whole gender ideology bollocks. I worry that he will brainwash DD into believing it too when she’s older and she’ll end up seeing me as the uncool, unprogressive one who just “doesn’t get it” 🙄

Dog forbid a trans person be able to live a life free of terror, scorn and threats due to laws and programs introduced 10 years ago.

We all share the ambition that trans identifying people should be able to live a life free of terror, scorn and threats. We would like - no, we demand - that be done without the misogyny, damage to women's rights, and damage to children that has happened either as a side-effect or as the direct purpose of such law and programmes.

Slightly off the original topic but this is a great article about how gender ideology is a product of the patriarchy and wouldn't have flourished without it:

https://open.substack.com/pub/culturewarblues/p/on-woman-as-other?utmsource=share&utmmedium=android&r=1gw285

As such, it is not the same to many women as simply disagreeing about religion or other politics. This is a movement that literally sees us as reflective surfaces to show men the image that they want to be and respond to them as they demand to be responded to, as other, as merely support humans and denies us the words with which to describe our experiences and our oppression.

OP only you know what you can put up with in the interests of keeping the peace and also what those relationships mean to you. A tricky balance for sure.

(And sorry but I keep reading your username as 'fannycrab' 😱😆 )

Edit for clarity/typos

I don't feel your fellow travelers universally share your support of trans people.

The presence of trans people does not diminish rights. The presence of trans children is not damage. The existence of trans women is not misogyny.

I don't feel your fellow travelers universally share your support of trans people.

That's unfortunate. Maybe then you should spend more time listening to what they say and reading what they write, instead of telling them how wrong they are because they have a perspective different to yours.

The presence of trans people does not diminish rights. The presence of trans children is not damage. The existence of trans women is not misogyny.

Assuming any of those things (trans people, trans children, trans women - whatever they may be) do actually exist, it's not to that existence that anyone objects.

A lot of what I've read this week has shown me that there is a lot of flat honest hate against trans women. I suspect trans men are seen as acceptable because they are seen as cute furry women, or something just as condescending.

I ultimately have come to the conclusion thus far that gender critical people are coming from the same place as race critical people. There is nothing that will ever convince them that trans people are real people.

To clarify: When i say 'race critical' I am not referring to critical race theory I am referring to race realists.

@onepostwonder

”A lot of what I've read this week has shown me that there is a lot of flat honest hate against trans women”.

No, not against trans women as such. If a man wants to dress up in a dress, so be it. However, if a woman wants to see a female doctor for what ever reason (eg, religion, been sexually assaulted by a man etc), for example, then that doctor cannot be a transwoman, ie, a man calling themselves a woman.

"he is angry with me for voicing GC views when he was growing up. It's frustrating as he seems to think i am "anti-trans", but he doesn't want me to talk about it - so we can't discuss it and hear each other's views, and I can't explain that IMO simply understanding the reality of sex and wanting to protect women, gay people and children from harm is not anti-trans, I don't hate people for being trans and I most certainly don't hate gender nonconformity."

@WhatterySquash This is really difficult and I think telling that he can't even bear to talk to listen to your views or discuss it. I think this is true for a lot of people who buy into trans ideology. It becomes very triggering for them to hear basic facts. I hope that in future you both can at least discuss it openly even if you don't agree.

@onepostwonder Its not hatred but women are angry, rightfully angry at their attempted erasure, angry at the male entitlement and lack of consideration for actual women that many trans identifying males display.

It's interesting how often GC women are the ones worrying about treading gently with family and friends to not upset or alienate trans people or trans supporters.

I've not noticed too many trans people or trans supporters treading gently with their close ones to not upset GC women.

I would hope most people would agree that women should be seen by a doctor she wishes and feels safe and comfortable with. The rest is your belief.

A lot of what I've read this week has shown me that there is a lot of flat honest hate against trans women.

I don't think there is; I certainly don't see it in this place.

I suspect trans men are seen as..

Women. That's it.

There is nothing that will ever convince them that trans people are real people.

There's nobody here that doesn't believe that people who identify as trans are also people. Literally nobody here.

WTH is a 'race realist'?

Is this the old 'not pretending that human beings can change sex is the same as racism' trope? Like Nancy Kelly and her sexual racist comment and the cotton ceiling?

My belief would be the presence of trans people does not erase non-trans people.

What some believe as male entitlement is equally present amongst trans men in male space. The gender critical focus on trans women does not remove this fact and any compounded belief of other gender critical assumption does not form a mythological motivation of erasure of all women.

Agree. Wearing tie dye t-shirts and pride badges = uncool 😒.
That's a worrying attitude your dc have.

Their demands to be treated as the sex they are not under the law with full access to women's spaces does indeed erase actual women and women's rights. If a man can be a woman then the term "woman" is meaningless.

Thankfully the the supreme court ruling takes care of these issues and means that trans identifying males will need to accept the reality of their sex.

This was shared on the FWS / Prisons thread. It fits here too.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/20d41b66-7678-46c9-a2c3-bcd70d6fb6a7?shareToken=c3ec34e5c7cd71e61e0744fe1682864c

We will all eventually learn how broad or narrow the Supreme Court decision applies. I suspect the contexts I believe are fewer than the contexts most here believe.

@onepostwonder It is quite clear that women's single sex space are to be protected under the law for females only. The guidance is about how to make additional spaces or gender neutral spaces for trans identifying people. Males will no longer be able to use women's single sex spaces.

The attacker should be punished for their crime. Bullying and intimidation in prisons should be minimized. Men should not be in Women's estates. Violent offenders should be kept away from everyone else. End of.

I understand trans women are evaluated on a case by case basis. This seems reasonable to me.

The guidance has yet to be seen. I've spoken with my husband and we'll likely move back to Canada if there is broad application of the SC decision.

No men should be in women's prisons, it doesn't matter how they identify, It must be 'no' to every single biological male.

You might explain the point that if any man is allowed into women's safe spaces all men are and that women cannot tell which man is a threat.

But you should not teach children to behave like this. They need to learn to believe their eyes. The wolf may wear a lace cap and mittens but it's not Grandma.

Well I hope you enjoy your move back to Canada because males will not be using woman's space in the UK in future, it will be literally illegal for them to do so under the equalities act.