How do navigate things with older/adult dc who are pro-trans ideology if you are not?

[Fancycrab]

Just wondering those of you who are GC and have teenagers or young adult dc who strongly support trans ideology, how do you navigate this? Do you just agree not to discuss it? Does it ever interfere with your relationship? My DD is still little but her dad, who I’m separated from is very pro trans rights and believes the whole gender ideology bollocks. I worry that he will brainwash DD into believing it too when she’s older and she’ll end up seeing me as the uncool, unprogressive one who just “doesn’t get it” 🙄

My DD is supportive of her trans and non binary friends. Misgendering is the most appalling thing you can do apparently. We tend not to discuss it. I did say that as a fairly gender non conforming woman I understand why people might want to reject sex stereotypes however I believe non binary is bollocks. We left it there. If your dd is young I'd treat it like religion. Some people believe this thing but I don't believe it and that's ok.

We avoid discussing it. Both DDs are in their 40s.

We rarely discuss it. Because we have very different opinions. I did once go OTT with adult DS1 who was mansplaining to me why JKRowling was devilspawn and trans rights issues were exactly the same as gay rights campaigns in 1980s. I started listing every memorable time I had been threatened or assualted by a man. I described every time I had been flashed at as a school girl, chased by weirdos if I tried to go jogging alone, touched up by friends' dads. Told by at least two taxi drivers that they could rape and kill me if they wanted and no one would know. On and on and on. I just didn't stop describing incident after incident until he finally started listening and then I said: this is why we need our own spaces.

He just hugged me and we've never discussed it since. It pisses me off that we can't. He has started to hiss about JK Rowling again and I can feel myself on the brink of lecturing him.

We've had a couple of massive rows about it and now avoid the issue as we are both clear on our opinions.

Thank you, that’s very helpful advice. Her dad has a number of trans & non-binary friends who DD sees regularly and she’s started saying things like “that cat might be a boy or a girl or it might be non-binary”. It’s just not something a 7 yo can grasp. I think she thinks non-binary is another sex. I’ve explained to her that if her dad’s non-binary friend wants to be called they/them we should try and respect that as that what makes them feel comfortable and it’s kind to treat people how they want to be treated so long as they’re not hurting you in any way…but she is still a woman, she just wants other people to pretend treat her like she isn’t a man or a woman. Which would sound insanely complicated to an adult 20 years ago! So god knows how complicated it is for a child to understand. There’s probably a simpler way of explaining it to her, so will happily take any suggestions! I’ve also said that being non-binary is a choice that only an adult can choose to make. It’s not something you’re born as like a boy is born a boy and a girl is born a girl. I know her dad would go mental if he found out I told her this though and I worry he’s teaching her something completely different and it’s going to confuse her. Sorry, gone off topic a bit, I’m not overly concerned about this now, I just worry it may become an issue when she’s older but you’re probably right, going with the religion explanation is probably best

My two dds are 18 and 21, and both fairly into GI. Though both also know that biology is real, but it seems impossible in their age group that you question the whole thing.

They both know my feelings, and I know theirs, so ostly we don't talk about it much. I don't refrain from saying things I think are important in the moment though. I do try not to put them in a position where they need to discuss it in front of their friends.

I’d probably just explain that theres females and males but some people wish they were the opposite. Also that it’s good to be polite to everyone as long as they are respectful to you.

Not my child but I had a great conversation with a 22yr old nephew who is a Green Party member and was coming out with all the tropes about ‘anti-trans’ and ‘far right ideology’. I came at it from the point of view that I share some important objectives with those that believe TWAW, in that I would like a far more gender neutral world where we are all working towards girls and boys being any version of girl or boy they like. He was surprised at this but more able to listen after that. I spoke about how regressive trans ideology is in my view and how it is based on tired sex stereotypes. And then about how scary it can feel for me personally in a unisex loo, women need single sex spaces for a reason, it’s not anti trans but life experience. He is a smart young guy and I was so pleased I could just open his eyes a bit that GC women are not all trump supporters. I think the finding common ground approach is a great starting place and holding back on topics like AGP, more likely to be successful.

All that said, I’d imagine his own mum would’ve got less airtime on the issue than I did - he’s my SIL son so not ans familiar with me, and was polite enough not to shut me down. I’d imagine with my own kids it will be harder. They are young but pretty terfy so far.

I think when a 7 year olds starts saying things like “that cat might be a boy or a girl or it might be non-binary”, she isn't talking about the cat; she is trying to bond with her Dad. She says the cat might be non binary because she doesn't have a clue about reality and biology yet, and she's copying what she's heard. So I'd start by getting her some age appropriate biology books.

Do you just agree not to discuss it?

Yes.

Politically we're still on the same page. But we'll never reach a consensus on this issue. So we avoid it.

I am GC, but that does not mean I am anti-trans. The fact that a good portion of my teenagers friend group is transgender just isn’t a big deal. They hang out in my house. I use their preferred pronouns and names. I treat them with the same respect as any of their friends. I keep their privacy as long as there is no imminent danger. This includes remembering who goes by different names with friends and with parents.

when my dd was just starting out in her lgb journey, we did fight a bit. She was so earnest. She didn’t understand that i want everyone protected and I simply think that things like accurate data collection and recording help protect trans people. We still disagree on that issue, but she no longer thinks I am a villain.

The only time we have clashed recently was when she wanted help buying a binder for a friend who needed to hide that from her parents. I declined because I think it is a safety issue. I explained my reasoning, she thankfully listened because she has maturity in the subject now. A different parent in the friend group helped out.

A different parent in the friend group helped out.

How is that an outcome to be grateful for?

I declined because I think it is a safety issue.

If you genuinely think it's an issue of a child's safety, what are you doing about it?

Good for you!!

In your experience have you found most of your daughter’s female trans & non-binary friends are gay? Do you think many young gay women (especially gender non-conforming ones) tend to identify as trans or non-binary these days rather than lesbian or gay? I’ve caught myself worrying that all this exposure DD has to trans & non-binary people might encourage her to think she’s not a girl. But then I thought about all those ignorant people who take their kids out of PSHE when they find out the existence of gay people is going to be discussed, because they think that knowing gay people exist will somehow turn their kid gay! It horrified me a bit, that I was thinking like that them

I think it’s tricky in your situation with a young child - but all you have to do is stick to the facts. You can’t control what he says but you can ensure that she knows people can present how they want but it doesn’t change their sex, and people cannot be born in the wrong body.

I have a young adult who appears to believe in trans ideology - I say appears to because I suspect he knows it’s all bollocks but having spent 7 years in uni has been brain washed into “be kind” culture.

In day to day life, we just don’t discuss it. He knows my thoughts on it and if someone else starts a conversation about it he can get quite defensive but ultimately refuses to engage. Uses phrases like “Trans people do exist you know”, and “I don’t understand why you’re so invested in it” “They’re such a small part of the population, why are you so worried about it” etc.

I actually love it if I find someone who believes in gender identity. I totally don’t understand why anyone would think it’s ok eg for women to have to strip off in front of unknown men in eg a pool changing room. Actually most young women don’t either. Equally, I don’t think anyone should be forced into certain dress codes etc because of their sex. On the whole we have a lot in common - which helps to highlight the actual extremist views.

This has led to some interesting discussions with my own teenagers, and with their more entrenched friends. It is important to maintain a compassionate view, because they will be imagining the most attractive/least threatening trans person you can think of, while I have to stop myself thinking Katie Dolatowski/Isla Bryson

But that’s how I approach teenagers, not 7 year olds. For your dd, just keep repeating the biological facts, and yes, maybe approaching it in the same way you would a religion is best atm

I hate how JKR has become a verbal punching bag and is basically viewed as arch villain number one for a lot of people. She is the bogeyman of GC people.

I clashed with my brother recently over this. Someone mentioned Harry Potter, and he went off on one about what a shame it is how JKR has turned out and how hateful she is etc. Of course, when challenged, he didn't have a clue what she has actually said If you are going to criticise her, at least bother to find out what her views are.

I'm GC, DS is pro-trans.

I explained my reasoning when it first came up in school. He explained his. We agreed to disagree. Since then, he and his cohort have lost interest in the idea. Now, it simply doesn't come up unless there is a news story.

One of my Dds friends partner now goes by they/them and had a name change, when dd told i ǰust said. Oh right and moved on, i don't really talk about it, my children are all over 25 -30 so not young teenagers.

I’ve just had an adult DD wake up to the real life consequences of TWAW in a context I’m not in a position to go into. It caused utter mayhem in her life for a few weeks. I’m smugly listening as she is sharing her new wisdom with me.

It is a little glorious but no one ever wants to hear I told you so, so obviously I won’t get to gloat.

In a surprisingly pleasant turn of events it was the guys in the group who really fronted up and argued the negative impacts on female members as a lot of the women felt too socially constrained when the spotlight turned on them.

In answer to the op, my eldest is only 13, but so far she is very sceptical of gender ideology. She and her friends have said that it is all the "odd" kids at school who identify as non-binary etc, which is quite sad really. They especially seem to think that non-binary is nonsense.

This may change as she gets older and moves in different circles, but I hope she I'll continue to think critically about it. My children know my views but I've always emphasised that I am pro-, women's rights, not anti-anything.

I think the age appropriate books idea is a good one, this is recommended:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/product/my-body-is-me/

Edited to say there are a couple of other options on the same website under “Shop”

My DD (adult) is non-binary and really we don’t talk about it anymore. I don’t use any pronouns to refer to her in front of her. I just can’t bring myself to say ‘they’ and it feels rude saying ‘she’. My DS says ‘they’ but he’s been exposed to this since a teen (both are in their early 20s).

It seems to be a whole ‘movement’ to me - she went to uni and after the first term was a ‘they’, started to form other political views which align with trans ID etc., hates JK Rowling despite being a Potterhead as a child, doesn’t understand why women need single sex spaces (this is the hill I’ll die on), wants (or wanted, not sure now) a double mastectomy (although seems to have backtracked on this and has no money to pay for it anyway 🙏). We don’t talk politics either apart from saying we hate Reform.

I don’t really care if an acquaintance is trans, it’s not like I’d shun them, but it’s a lot more difficult/emotional when it’s your DC.

You must discuss it, frequently. This ideology thrived when people were afraid to speak up for reality. Don’t let it get worse.

the arguments dissolve in the light of day.

be that light.

and especially OP, explain , frequently, to your daughter the reality of the world. She will be brainwashed by schools otherwise.

My kids are young adults including an older teen and they're GC. The oldest says GI is just like cutting yourself was when she was at school - she didn't do it but some of her friends did.
I think the suggestion of portraying it to your daughter as a religion or set of beliefs is a good angle. Especially at her age because they teach them a lot about different religions at school, so that might help her to see it that way.