"A woman who is trans"

[AllThisFuss]

I've been noticing this terminology creeping in. Just thought I might highlight it, so we can keep up to date with their ever-changing attempts to control language and muddy the waters. Have you seen any in the wild?

IndiaWilloughby
‪@indiawilloughby.bsky.social‬
Not a mention of the woman who’s trans, who did nothing wrong. This ruling is in direct conflict with the Gender Recognition Act. How is this happening? It is wrong on every level, and will be used to push trans people even further out of society and into danger

N/M

. Sorry, Image didn't go through.

Yes, that's the one!
Thank you 🌻

I think individual trans people sometimes forget that they are part of a movement that has been selling trans ideology over a number of years, both explicitly and subtly.

My daughter was in year 7 when she was told, by a speaker at school, about trans ideology, and 'injections' made it possible to change sex convincingly. She's now left university.

The media has run stories for years, seemly for no other purpose but to tell us that a man is now a woman and his pronouns are she.

Politicans cannot talk about trans people without the claim that they are the most marginalised and vulnerable, even when they are perpetrators of serious crimes.

This means that we've all been manipulated. We all know that a man can become a woman, that makes him happy, he's vulnerable and liable to harm himself if questioned. And drugs work, so if they dont work for him, he is even more marginalised.

This had lead to two things. When we see a man in a womens space who has the vaguest hint of 'femininity', we assume trans. And we know that we shouldnt question him.

Secondly, lots of people have had trans ideology marketed at them. Feeling odd about yourself? Feel 'comfortable' in womens spaces? Don't like the pressure of gender roles? Like cross dressing? All possible signs of being trans.

The ideology posits that there is such a thing as a baby born with the opposite sex brian, or that babies are born with a gender identity, and rather than saying thats not an identity, its personality and preference, instead claim thats trans. Its madness.

So I'm going to laugh my big fat arse off when a bloke scolds me for being cynical.

I'm sorry for my part in the way that this thread has gone. I normally just read MN FWR without posting to allow it to be a women-centred discussion space, and try to learn from what is posted. I know what reaction my posting is likely to cause, especially in those who have been abused by TWs.

On this occasion, I did post because I genuinely thought there was a chance that ThatOpalTurtle might actually be persuaded to stop using female facilities, and that that could be a small win for the women around them IRL. Perhaps I'm naive, I don't know. But I think I overstayed my welcome and it certainly derailed the original point of the thread.

I don't intend to post on this thread again unless in reply to a direct question. I just thought it would be rude to leave it without an apology. So sorry again, particularly to Taztoy.

I appreciate the apology @TroubledWatersTW but please don’t leave on my account. I will Leave and let the conversation continue.

You are repressed homosexual with internalised homophobia because you think there's something wrong with you you think you should be the opposite sex

The problem is you can't be. Transitioning doesn't make you a heterosexual woman. It makes you a homosexual man who tries to erase his sex and sexuality by upholding a fantasy.

It must suck, but it in no way makes you a woman.

You position is actually somewhat offensive to both women and gay feminine men.

This also isn't the problem of women to fix or uphold as a belief to make you feel better about yourself.

You can never escape yourself.

Deep down no matter what you say you know you are a gay man. Just a gay man who doesn't want to be a gay man or be perceived as a gay man.

Transitioning children, especially female children, do not belong in the same cohort as middle aged men who transitioned well after puberty.

We should stop giving inappropriate platforms. If a news story is about transmen transitioning age 21 we do not wheel out 50 something male rentagob transwomen for TV talking heads. They are irrelevant. They have nothing to do with young transmen.

The optics are not good for these males to do this. It makes them look creepy or as if they are using young women to further their own agenda.

Every time we see it, we should call it out.

Equally a male homosexual who identifies as a woman has little in common with teenage girls struggling with puberty and sexism.

They have unique issues for their situation. Let's not pretend differently because the people it helps least of all is transpeople themselves.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

As asomeone who will hit the wrong key not hit the key cant spell has given up on punctuation🤳 👀
I found both versions rather amusing 🤷‍♀️

I noticed that OpalTurtle only really started to engage with the other man on this thread when it was pointed out to him that he hadn’t done so.

He did provide an answer to a couple of questions put to him. However, he only went into full flow when answering questions specifically about himself, his future etc.

I’m not interested in the navel gazing of a man who uses women’s spaces. I also don’t believe that this thread has been a Road to Damascus experience for him.

Please dont leave the thread @Taztoy you are a valuable part of the conversation.

@NeverOneBiscuit valid points

@TroubledWatersTW I think your contributions helped with providing a compair and contrast the interactions.
Which given the subject matter of the thread is appropiate.

Anyway back(ish) on topic

Another thread by @JoyousAsOtters

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5479167-bbc-in-depth-on-nhs-and-tribunals

The gender critical women's campaign group Sex Matters³ said this "should have been common sense" but it was "relieved and delighted" by the tribunal's findings.

Trans rights campaigners Translucent say that for many trans people the debate is "excruciatingly difficult", that these cases are rare¹ and when rights "clash" then that needs to be handled in a proportionate way.

# How employers are left to read the runes #
Translucent points to two other recent employment tribunals, which it says are consistent with Darlington in showing that "employers have a duty to cater for trans people and gender-critical people² in providing workplace facilities, so that everyone can be accommodated".

¹ The NHS is the UK's largest employer. Last year 1.5 million people worked in services run by NHS England alone......At the time, it was a policy mirrored in many other NHS Trusts.

²The reduction of lawful single sex provision down to the group of women (and men) who have a protected belief.

³ the difference in lenght of quoted comment is .... interesting

[(Edit) to try fix format]

That’s terrible, how do we keep allowing this to happen? How can someone be banned from all leisure centres in their area for pointing out a basic fact clear for anyone to see?

The chilling effects are horrifying. Police forces need to be protecting people who actually need protecting. In this case women and girls from having a man in a place where they would expect privacy and be in a vulnerable state of undress.

And then they say "But no women complain!" because, look what happens when we do! 🙄 Which isn't even to take into account the times we just want to get out of there ASAP.

It is indeed unbelievable - and yet so believable.

This is why I’m so hard line on the issue.It’s not a door that can be gently pushed at, with exceptions and head tilts and trying terribly hard to be kind.

No. Just no, and if that causes tears or flouncing or cries of being unkind well, tough. You can’t always have what you want - and definitely not if it belongs to somebody else.

I wonder if this recent video from Amy Sousa on using female language on a one on one situation and the cognitive impact of that is useful here.

https://x.com/knownheretic/status/2014565139341836724?s=46

Just a warning to any male person who uses Grok as validation.

I would be very reluctant to use Grok for anything requiring evidence now.

x.com/fondofbeetles/status/2014660554917314721?s=46

Language is a tricky thing. There are trans-identified men in my family, and everyone else calls them "she". Some of my family members know I am gender-critical, but most don't, and they certainly don't know how strongly I feel about it. I refuse to say, "woman", "sister" or other female-only words to refer to them, and that is quite easy as it doesn't come up often and there are simple substitutes. But pronouns, arrgh! I feel like I am a traitor to myself if I use "she", and it actually makes me angry, but if I say, "he" I will alienate the people I love, and potentially lose them altogether. More and more I am trying to avoid pronouns altogether, but this is hellishly difficult.

I understand Swirly.

The emotional coercion is great and not to be underestimated. I think that it is very hard to navigate and I don't judge most people's decisions when they are under any sort of coercion to use female language for a male person.

Ultimately, the responsibility for this coercion is with the source of the demand that wrong sex language has to be used. That is generally, but not always, the male person who is making the demand, or even the request that someone feels they cannot refuse. It is actually rather narcissistic when you look at it, in that a person makes an unreasonable demand that ultimately 'centres' them because it disrupts someone's thinking and they have to make special effort for that person.