"A woman who is trans"

[AllThisFuss]

I've been noticing this terminology creeping in. Just thought I might highlight it, so we can keep up to date with their ever-changing attempts to control language and muddy the waters. Have you seen any in the wild?

IndiaWilloughby
‪@indiawilloughby.bsky.social‬
Not a mention of the woman who’s trans, who did nothing wrong. This ruling is in direct conflict with the Gender Recognition Act. How is this happening? It is wrong on every level, and will be used to push trans people even further out of society and into danger

Aww I am sorry. I always appreciate your posts and the questions you ask. I’m just annoyed that once again men are shutting women up. Where were all these #bekinders and “let the men chat” when Tandora and Howse were minimising rape victims and traumatised women?

Thank you @Namelessnelly that’s kind of you to say

it’s just a different tactic now. Another side of the same coin.

operstion let them speak working but not just quite in the intended way.

“If there was the intention to engage in good faith, it was giving very mixed signals.”

meaning the communication style was giving mixed signals, but this is a clumsy sentence.

This, exactly.

Turtle does have a 'safe space'. Turtle has a real life where he is surrounded by friends and family who constantly by word and behaviour tell him he is a woman.
He feels so safe that his opening contribution was to tell us he thinks disclosing he is trans is irrelevant, as he is simply a woman.
Turtle will leave this board and return to his circle of affirmation. And next time Turtle wishes to use the toilet, these people are not going to support him to overcome his 'dread' and feelings of 'indignity' to use the mens. They are going to tell him it's ridiculous for someone who looks so womanly not to use the ladies, that of course he's a woman. To stay away from the bigots on MN who seek only to prevent him existing. That the other TW on the board has 'internalised transphobia' or is a terf plant.
With all that weight on one side, I'd be extremely surprised if Turtle doesn't return to the comfort of his preferred stance, so the chances of change being achieved I think are slim. Certainly not high enough to off set telling other women to back off so we can all witness the drama of a real time 'peaking'.

@Hedgehogforshort Taztoy was not stopping the 2 TW from speaking or posting. Often threads have 3 or 4 different conversations going on at the same time. You could have scrolled past their posts. There is no reason Taztoy had to stop posting, her posts were concurrent and separate from the TWs. You really should have not said anything, and you've caused trouble now.

Theres at least two men and some women who have managed to make this thread a performance. Its become a fake therapy session where two men are supposedly coming to terms with their feelings, while some women are gently encouraging the discussion and sush-ing other women in case they frighten them off.

I know threads evolve, and its happened countless times before. But its not real, we arent converting anyone. He's convinced he passes, convinced he isn’t causes any distress to women and girls, convinced his idea of being a woman is deep and real. At best, hes using MN as proof he isnt a man otherwise why would he be embraced as much as he is?

And he's managed to split women into those who support him and those who are mean and don't.

It seems Turtle may be understanding some things now. But it's unsurprising it took a fellow male to make them understand.

I think our issue, and that this thread shows, is that these spaces are our (female) spaces. The males are the interlopers, the invaders. There is a lack of respect. If you were going to visit spaces of a native space, such natives in Canada or in the Indigenous Aboriginals in Australia, would you just.... barge in, and not request permission? Would you not show respect to the original owners? Women did not even invite these men in, they just barged in, pushing us aside, then sneered at us when we said NO. And they truly don't understand the disrespect, the hurt they've shown us? The trauma they have caused? You are a guest (and not even that) in a space. You show respect. You don't act like you own it and deserve to be there. If you are a white person, you wouldn't barge into a BLM or NAACP meeting and expect to be allowed in AND allowed to speak AND use the facilities as if you were entitled to it. You are meek, respectful, considerate, and leave if/when asked. That's proper human behaviour. The same goes for males in female spaces where women and girls are vulnerable. And where you know DV victims, rape victims, and various trauma victims are. If you are raised with compassion, basic human decency and consideration, you know you don't enter that space unless invited by the original owners. And leave if asked to, while shown consideration and respect.

I didn’t even ask them to leave. Or stop talking to each other.

I know. You did nothing wrong. Don't leave! You have valid experience to give.

This 100%. I would rather have you on this thread than 100 men

To whom?

Agreed.

I can understand some women, especially maybe those more new to the issue, being interested in watching a real life peaking of a dyed in the wool TRA. An enlightenment that their logic, coherence and rationality has generated.

But, frankly, I don't think for a single second they are. This isn't a rare occurrence. It's the push me/pull you aspect of 'you might just be able to persuade me if I can talk about myself and my feelings in your space for long enough'. It happens a lot.

Some men's embryonic guilt at fucking women over leads them here to have a little bit of mental wanking to see whether or not they can justify it.

Although, mostly, two weeks later they come back, even more cemented in their determination to enter women's spaces.

It never seems to occur to them that banging on about it on here is exactly that.

The irony of wondering whether or not you're doing the right thing, by doing that exact thing.

This board is not a playground for men to chat about whether or not they're right in fucking women over. And any man who thinks it is, in my opinion, could not be further from peaking in real life.

I just want to point out. This is what was said to me. After I’d withdrawn by saying “thank you for your honesty”.

** Hiya i have no right to tell you not to express how you feel, and you have been clear and articulate.
Having said that i wonder if it is possible to step back a bit here.
this to my knowledge is the first time that we have seen a conversation like this on here, one TIM to another.
i think it would be good to let it run, as women we need TIM who are willing to start conversations about accepting they are not women.
I do believe that there is such a thing as body dysmorphia, and that those who don't want to attack women’s rights should find a place to explore this.
I don't think we should be support animals, but there is no place else for them as yet, that is as safe as here.
And yes they have committed offences, but are peaking in some way.

is it possible for me to step back to let the conversation between the two men run.

if that isn’t sit down shut up and let the men speak what the fuck is it?

I should imagine they matter to everyone.
All opinions are equal.

However, how to respond to those opinions is down to the individual.

I want to ask questions of people that have vastly differing views to mine. Not to be converted to their way of thinking but to understand why they feel as they do.

"It's the push me/pull you aspect of 'you might just be able to persuade me if I can talk about myself and my feelings in your space for long enough'. It happens a lot."

Yes. And when you see the pattern, it is easy to identify.

Wow! I did see that. But remember “all opinions are equal”, unless you’re a woman objecting to men taking over a feminist thread obviously 😞😞😞😞

I was told I’d completely misinterpreted what was said.

im autistic and sometimes I do get it wrong.

but please can someone tell me what I misinterpreted here?

If because I used that phrase and your post is aimed at me, you couldn’t be more wrong.

It was uncalled for IMO @Taztoy. Women should not be told to rein it in so some men can waffle on about themselves. Not in the real world and definitely not here.

Every one of us has been raised and lives in a world soaked in sexism. Its the water we swim in. It can be very hard to even discern it because the status of males as more important than women is baked into so many things.

Women on here resist it by just centering women.

It isnt always easy. And that in itself is an object lesson.

I understand why but I really hope you don’t

Also, what @Datun said

So why was the woman told to shut up
Snd listen and not the men? And no, it wasn’t aimed particularly at you, but at the others on this thread telling women to shut up and ket men speak.

MN FWR should not be viewed as being a 'safe space' for any men to find resolution to inner struggles if it means that women are being told to not speak or women are being used as resources, or both or any other harm to women and girls.

This also was not the first discussion of this type on FWR, I remember quite a few previously, including those that went pear shaped eventually. There is also an entire board set aside on MN for support.

Women should not be asked to create a safe space for men to the detriment of ourselves not being able to have our own voices heard. Particularly a man who posts so inconsistently. We keep pointing out that women are not therapeutic resources.