"A woman who is trans"

[AllThisFuss]

I've been noticing this terminology creeping in. Just thought I might highlight it, so we can keep up to date with their ever-changing attempts to control language and muddy the waters. Have you seen any in the wild?

IndiaWilloughby
‪@indiawilloughby.bsky.social‬
Not a mention of the woman who’s trans, who did nothing wrong. This ruling is in direct conflict with the Gender Recognition Act. How is this happening? It is wrong on every level, and will be used to push trans people even further out of society and into danger

There is a great example also of the tendency to be even less able to pass with age. That individual might have ‘worked really hard at transition’ but that person never was a female person and there is no fucking reward where they become women for men who ‘work hard at transition’.

Rethinking your world view is a lot I know, and you've chosen an interesting place to come and do it! Genuinely bravo if you're really trying 🙂

Yes, I think what you posted about dysphoria matches my feelings to. Obviously I'm going to have a different view to many on this forum, but basically I do believe dysphoria can be a persistent and debilitating mental health condition in some people. My transition was a treatment for that condition, but I never believed the whole "we're really just women in men's bodies" idea. I tried to go in rationally because I do believe the truth is very powerful and liberating.

So what I accepted, from the outset actually, is that for whatever unfortunate reason I'm a man with gender dysphoria. That sucks, but it's the truth. I don't blame myself for that, I don't know what caused it; it is what it is. "Transition" is a series of medical tools (hormones, surgery, ...) by which some people can 'treat' some of the feelings towards the body by adjusting that body. It's a hell of a choice to make; it sterilises us, it weakens us, it has all sorts of medical complications and it has social consequences. I felt it was worth the gamble, and for me it paid off, it did help with my distress towards my body and my life genuinely feels better.

In terms of what I am; I'm still that same person I was at the start, I've just done a rather dramatic treatment/body modification. In terms of talking to other people, I do prefer if I can make no secret of the fact I'm trans. I find it liberating when people know the truth; otherwise I spend my time worrying about how they will react, "do they already know?", "how do I look?", "can they tell?", etc. Being stealth is more stressful. It's complicated though of course. I do personally know TWs in my town who have been physically assaulted by strangers based on their appearance, and so I do try to be inconspicuous when walking down the street, out of fear. My ideal society would be one where I didn't feel I had to hide what I am, be self conscious every time I go out in public. Sadly at the moment I feel I do have to hide sometimes.

To describe myself, I just say I'm a trans woman. I know some posters here don't like that term, but I do find it's the label that most people understand (though there is plenty of confusion I accept). To me a label is something that brings understanding, and most people now seem to know what a trans woman is roughly. I certainly don't leave it unqualified and just say "woman", but equally I don't typically refer to myself as a "man" but would do for clarity if someone is confused. I don't make any demands on how other people refer to me, but certainly when I hear people say she/her I don't correct them to he/him and vice versa.

It is such a giveaway line, and exposes what men like RMW think a woman is; a collection of body parts to then be dressed like a Barbie doll and hey presto, the hard work = woman.

It was a belter of an interview with Maya Forstater, a few years back. The interviewer asked Maya if she saw Robin as a woman, she replied that she saw him as a man. Robin looked amazed and hurt. It was like a dog with a saddle being upset that he wasn’t viewed as a horse.

Till my dying day I will never understand how this absurdity captured our society. Obviously I have heard and considered the many and plausible reasons why, but it’s like some weird mass delusion.

Well, I actually gained weight in that period. I wore a set of neutral-looking men's trainers in my old size the whole time, which gradually started to feel loose. Got quite a shock when I remeasured, but genuinely now do buy smaller shoes. Quite convenient in truth, as I was rather limited on shoe styles at my old size 😁

Thank you for taking the time to write that. I really appreciate it. What you say about dysphoria matches how I see it too. It’s a mental health condition that caused me a lot of suffering and I transitioned to resolve it. I wish we understood what makes us this way. I have a lot of uncertainty around whether I was born this way or if it’s a result of some experience during childhood.

I find it liberating when people know the truth; otherwise I spend my time worrying about how they will react, "do they already know?", "how do I look?", "can they tell?", etc. Being stealth is more stressful
I very much relate to the worrying about how I’m seen and being stressed about someone finding out. I have this worry that something bad will happen if someone realise I’m trans, so I do my best to make sure that doesn’t happen. I feel like I have to hide this part of myself, but I know it would be a relief to open up about it.

My feeling is generally people are very okay with it. Maybe I've got lucky I don't know. Particularly if you are 'normal' about it other people just gloss over it. There are genuinely people who are dangerous, but really such people are very few and far between. I feel at my most comfortable with people who know, I know if some sign starts showing, or if my voice drops or something, that they're not going to have any problem with that. So I think we do personally benefit from most people we interact with knowing the truth.

I have some friends that I’ve explicitly told and others where it hasn’t come up, and I do generally feel more comfortable with my friends that know because I don’t have to worry. I would expect with enough time they’ve realised, but I can never no for sure so until it’s explicit I feel like I have to be perfect.

I used to see blending in as a privilege and a good thing and it is, but at times I feel shame about hiding this part of myself

Yup. HRT is not the magic pill gender ideologists think it is.

Exactly, honestly I spent years feeling ashamed before transition that I didn't want transition to be a new source of shame. When I transitions I decided I was done with secrets.

I try to just work a reference to being trans into conversation at some point. Just something throw away and casual so it's not some 'big deal' disclosure. If someone is shocked, it'll be obvious at that point.

So you’re happy to break the law. You’re happy to traumatise people like me.

happy to stealth. Coz as long as women don’t know it doesn’t count.

thank you for your honesty.

I wish we understood what makes us this way. I have a lot of uncertainty around whether I was born this way or if it’s a result of some experience during childhood.

I have a theory that certain beliefs crop up again and again in the human mind - communicating with the dead, totem animals, clairvoyance, magical/god entities, and changeable or hermaphroditic sex.

I don't think it means these things are real, I think it is because these are mysteries and fears: death, the experiences of animals, the future, powerlessness, the experiences of the opposite sex are both everyday and unknowable. So they make great metaphors for subconscious minds trying to find a meaning, or a connection, or an escape beyond their own boundaries

I wish trans women and women could equally share spaces, but I’ve come to see that this is impossible. I’ve seen how some trans women behave and understand why women would feel uncomfortable sharing with them. Like me I’m sure you’d never hurt anyone, but I’m also self aware enough to understand it’s not possible to tell a good trans woman from a bad one, so we all have to be excluded. I thought I could justify using a female space because I’d never hurt anyone, but I’ve realised this was wrong and I have to change

@Taztoy Hiya i have no right to tell you not to express how you feel, and you have been clear and articulate.

Having said that i wonder if it is possible to step back a bit here.

this to my knowledge is the first time that we have seen a conversation like this on here, one TIM to another.

i think it would be good to let it run, as women we need TIM who are willing to start conversations about accepting they are not women.

I do believe that there is such a thing as body dysmorphia, and that those who don't want to attack women’s rights should find a place to explore this.

I don't think we should be support animals, but there is no place else for them as yet, that is as safe as here.

And yes they have committed offences, but are peaking in some way.

Why in the world should I be driven off here?

Taztoy I am not driving you away don’t be ridiculous, feel free to interject as much as you like I just don’t see what value it has.

i am not the thread police

it was just a suggestion many may disagree with me

Bravo! Have a bunch of flowers for being a good person.

Just wanted to thank @TroubledWatersTW and @ThatOpalTurtle for sharing their conversation here. As the mother of a child with significant gender dysphoria, who has socially desisted but really isn’t at peace with herself yet, I value the opportunity to ‘eavesdrop’ on your exchange. There has been a very kind trans man on another thread [loath to tag here in case it is intrusive] who has been incredibly open about their journey.

I know my DD may never fully come to terms with herself/her body so having the opportunity to listen in and gain insight into other people’s GD experiences is valuable. If only so that I am in some way prepared should DD decide at some future point to go down the surgical route rather than chose exploratory therapy. My ‘control’ as a parent is now limited so am trying to find my place in her life - and ensure I have a place and that she has a life.

Men post here, but women's voices take precedence.

Its one of the very, very few places where this is the case. And valuable for precisely that reason.

Thank you for sharing that. I can only imagine how hard it is to be a parent with a child going through this. I’ve been fortunate to have accepting parents, but I know seeing me change and adapting hasn’t been easy for them.

I truly hope your daughter can come to terms with herself, but if she does transition I hope you know it’s not all bad. This place can be very negative about transition, but it can really help some people live happy and fulfilling lives

Thanks for posting, I'm so sorry she is going through that, and I know the secondary impact it all has on loved ones too. It's a horrible thing.

I'm not sure I can offer any useful insights, but what I can say is that it is ultimately because my own mother was a GC mumsnetter (prior to me revealing my feelings) that I arrived at my own position. Perhaps if I'd not had that perspective, those uncomfortable truths, I'd have turned out very different. Sadly though in a lot of families it can turn into friction and isolation, so I guess the most important thing is keeping the channel open, listening, gently questioning. Probably most important though providing that loving stability that she can fall back on when things are hard. I was so very nervous my own mother would abandon me when I did open up about my gender dysphoria, that was my biggest fear, but really it was never going to happen.

There are lots of safe places for men with a trans identity. Reddit? Bluesky? The rest of the sodding Internet.

@TroubledWatersTW thank you. I have worked really hard to make sure that she knows she is loved and that we would never abandon her, however hard we may find it to come to terms with any decisions she may ultimately make. I just didn’t want her to rush into anything while young and distressed (autism/ADHD and a whole host of MH issues). I am hoping that she has decided not to go down this route ever, and she seems in a better place now than several years ago, but I know feelings change and it’s outside my control. Learning to let go of the things I can’t control and just focus on reinforcing that we love her seems to be all we can do.

@Namelessnelly I don’t think they are safe spaces the ones you have quoted, and i too am a bit reticent about using this board, but then on the other hand i don’t want to be in an eco chamber.

i think disagreements are fine i agree with @ArabellaScott about women's voices taking priority .

I did not suggest that Taztoy should not speak i merely meant let the TIMS chat i don’t see the problem as i find it interesting to watch the thinking involved, i have never really heard their perspective or thinking before, other than reading Debbie Hayton.

who i know is not at all popular.

Are you getting a regular bone density scan (because your actual bone lenght should not shrink).

And if you are wearing "womens" shoes / high heels the shrinkage can be the change in muscles/tendons as they have to work harder

So you want feminists in a feminist board to let two men take up space and chat “cos there’s nowhere else safe for them”? Why? Can you imagine if women went over to Reddit and started making a thread by transpeople all about women? They’d soon be booted off. Why are Reddit and bluesky not safe for non cis men? I know they’re not safe for women, but why would men be unsafe there?