"A woman who is trans"

[AllThisFuss]

I've been noticing this terminology creeping in. Just thought I might highlight it, so we can keep up to date with their ever-changing attempts to control language and muddy the waters. Have you seen any in the wild?

IndiaWilloughby
‪@indiawilloughby.bsky.social‬
Not a mention of the woman who’s trans, who did nothing wrong. This ruling is in direct conflict with the Gender Recognition Act. How is this happening? It is wrong on every level, and will be used to push trans people even further out of society and into danger

I too am probably out. Name change and never post here again if not totally off mumsnet.

I never ever expected to be driven off here. to be told in this board to be told to sit down shut up and let the men speak.

and I’ve been told on another thread that i was shouting by asking why should i be driven off.

its certainly been an illuminating evening.

Who has "attacked" you? I'm not seeing that happening.

A discussion with different viewpoints from yours does not equal "attacking".

you have totally misinterpreted me and i am very sorry that you have.

I have appreciated your posts. I hope you do come back.

And the fucking irony is. I’ve said on here and in RL.

I would use the right pronouns.

I support trans people’s human rights and right to exist.

no issue with them presenting however they like.

but I don’t want them in single sex spaces that are currently allowed in law to be women only.

And moreover I’ve talked about the law and how it will, in my personal opinion, weaken women’s protection of stealthing becomes allowed.

I’ve talked about my own trauma and what happened to me on this board and why that makes those single sex spaces so important to me. And why I’m so good at spotting a trans identifying man is rooted in that. And I’ve been called a liar on this board because of that. And laughed at on this board and told to go to specsavers.

I’ve been told it didn’t matter about me feelings it was what and how the trans identifying individuals feel it’s not about me. It’s their internal cognition that matters.

and there was a man on here who was a supposedly respected poster who told us all about stupid women.

and now I have to sit down and shut up and let the men speak because the only place they can do that is on a thread on feminism sex and gender on mumsnet.

I really can’t understand what I did wrong to get such. A long post directed at me a telling me off and I’m really upset. And that means this isn’t the place I thought it was because it’s going to centre men. Even here. And I feel gutted and upset and stupid as fuck because I’ve shared of myself to try to make people understand why it matters to me and it was all for nothing. Because I don’t matter.

Same here 💐

How have I ? You told me to shut up and let the men speak.

Blimey! I didn't think my little post about the use of "women who are trans" would turn into such a saga. I can't even keep up with all the posts on this thread. But I thank you all for contributing.

Please, everyone, let's remember what is happening here. Men want to take over women's spaces, and definition. And as their efforts are exposed, they amorphise the language yet again. Let's keep an eye on it.

FWIW, IMO the more perspectives the better.

And questions that remain unanswered, although frustrating, nevertheless still tell their part of the story.

I just joined to thank you for sharing this.

It's funny because my mother and I have talked about this for years, strangely most recently just this afternoon...

My mother referred me to childhood ADHD studies in the 70s because she recognized a lot of my personality and reaction to 'life' in her own childhood experiences. My gender issues were glossed over during childhood, but I did eventually transition as a teen in the mid-80s.

I can't say whether there is a genetic tie across anything. But I wanted to respond to say you aren't the first to ponder the topic.

If you’re genuinely curious I’m happy to answer any questions you or anyone else might have

How do you see your future?
I don’t really know what you’re asking here tbh. I think I’m envisioning the same things as anyone else. I see promotions, buying my first home, finding a partner, etc

Do you see yourself with a partner of the same sex or the opposite sex?
I see myself with a man. You can probably imagine why dating is not easy for me as a trans woman. Some men are okay with it but most are not, so I know I’ll be lucky if I find the right man

Do you want children of your own?
Not really. I sometimes think I’d eventually like to have children, but I like the freedom I currently enjoy too much

@ThatOpalTurtle So basically you are a male who is attracted to males.

it used to be known as being gay.

What a fucking travesty that your perception has been so distorted that you can not even be a gay man.

it did not take long did it for society to trans away the gay, this trans ideology is so vile.

I don’t think it’s that simple for me. I know being a gay man would’ve been a lot easier, but that just doesn’t feel like me. I would still feel like my body hasn’t developed in the right way. Now whether this idea developed in childhood from feeling like I had to be female to express myself in the way that felt natural to me is a different question

I am genuinely curious. Thanks for replying.

I agree with you.

Then go and read another thread. Plenty to choose from.
These men aren't being centred on this thread anyway. Both of them have interacted with many posters on here not just each other. And @ThatOpalTurtle in particular seems to be learning a lot from all these interactions. Maybe it'll all come to nothing, who knows? Maybe it won't. Truth is, we'll probably never know

You and me both @Taztoy . We’ve been given our orders. Let the men speak and maybe we’ll learn exciting and new things about why men use sexist and outdated gender bullshit to claim to be women.

Yip @Namelessnelly let’s not forget I was told I can’t read and interpret because I’ve totally misinterpreted what was said.

additionally, I asked questions because I’m “genuinely curious” but I didn’t get mine answered coz mine are hard sums. Or something.

but mostly. Fuck off Taz. Sit down. Shut up. Let the men talk.

Exactly. Once again the men take over a space meant for women abd women are supposed to budge up and #bekind

I wasn’t even rude. I’ve never been rude.

I asked questions politely. The same ones (basically) I ask all the time on these threads.

so I’ve basically been accused of being “not genuine” by a trans identifying man. That’s the subtext of that person’s posts towards me and their other posts here, on this thread. Not only am I lying about being able to tell a trans identifying men, my questions aren’t simpering enough.

And women posters (ostensibly women. Posters who have not said they are men and don’t have a name that indicates they are a male poster) have sided with that, can’t see the manipulative nature of the posts and want me to shut up because the man don’t like it.

No. You weren’t rude. And it was only yesterday one of these men was lambasting women on here. But yeah, we’re supposed to forget that and “let the men speak”.

And of course that trans individual will answer questions from the “genuinely curious” and there’s no manipulation in that at all. None.

It's like a different type of dog that meows.

I think that the discussion has revolved around Turtle somewhat and it can be said that is centring Turtle in that way.

I also have mixed feelings about that because Turtle’s style of communication has been clearly snide at times. Even so, women have patiently persisted in posting replies at length with detailed perspectives and have asked pertinent questions to ascertain what Turtle thinks. Questions very often ignored while Turtle then asks new ones.

I believe that TroubledWaters picked up that communication feature too and commented on it. If there was the intention to engage in good faith, it was giving very mixed signals. Mostly it felt like a nightly drive by ‘whataboutery’ session aimed at finding an aspect that would give permission to access provisions not meant for male people.

This is an open site and there really is no restriction on who posts here. However, it is an example of utilising women as resources - either for information or as sounding boards for his benefit and, potentially for a degree, as some aspect of therapeutic resource.

Those of us who continued interaction accepted this, but only if they recognised it. I am not sure all female posters did recognise it. It also doesn’t mean that Turtle recognised he was doing it either. Perhaps though, this is the source of frustration that women responded to. I wonder….

In that way, this thread became a live demonstration of the dynamics some of us were discussing.

In saying that, I hope that Cautious and Taz stay on the board as this is a board where women’s perspectives should be heard and discussion had.

I could see exactly what was being done. I’m going to finish out this thread and then I’m done.

There’s none so blind and all that.

I don’t have the bandwidth to continue.