Charlie Kirk shot during a debate about trans people

[feministmom4ever]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15086277/Charlie-Kirks-final-words-assassinated-Utah-dead.html

I didn’t agree with many of his political views, but I liked how he interacted with college students who couldn’t answer the question “what is a woman?”.

We don’t know who shot him and we don’t know why.

I just had a look on Bluesky where Charlie Kirk was trending. The kind posters over there were all taking issue over an article which, from what I could see, wasn't breaking out the champagne to celebrate his murder. Someone had helpfully drawn a list of the stuff he'd said. I don't know if he'd said them or, shorn of context, why. If he believed half of them though (one I remembered was to make kids watch the execution of Trump's enemies) he was not someone I'd find much common cause with. I'm not going to be wearing a 'je suis Charlie' t-shirt. Anyway although many Bluesky users seem quite comfortable with his murder, I think his tag line 'prove me wrong' was the way to go. MAGA has a martyr. I fear for tp in America if this turns out to be another trans murderer.

I’ve been watching the American online rx to this horrible event and unfortunately I think the US is fucked. A huge number of them have jumped straight past “My God, this is horrible that culture war provocation and tribalism have got so bad people think free speech absolutism is completely answerable with gun violence” to “I have just spent the morning seeking out all the worst takes I can find so I can accuse the Other Side of terrible things and carry on point scoring.”

It’s like the Jan 6th attack, when people were so keen to paint their side as righteous they almost completely ignored what actually happened and why it was a big fucking problem.

Anyone who can't condemn this murder has lost their soul to their ideology. Words are not violence, and Charlie Kirk did not deserve to be shot simply for speaking and sharing his words. I find the whole thing terrifying.

People definitely seem to be saying that him holding opinions they disagreed with means they are indifferent to his being murdered. It’s horrifying

I profoundly disagreed with a lot that Kirk had to say, but agreed with him on other points. The art of debate, winning, or losing is the underpinning of democracy, & his murder is a shocking attack on our freedoms. People who can't see that are lost.

This.

I agree. And there are many men who think exactly the same about women who speak up against the trans agenda, let’s not forget. Look at how they gloated at Magdalen Bern’s’ tragic death from brain cancer. Look at their violent threats.

‘Punch a Nazi’ probably seemed somewhat reasonable at some point (eg the lady who famously hit a skinhead with her handbag) but ‘Kill a Catholic Media Commentator by a gun shot to the Neck’ is surely over the line for anyone with a shred of political sanity still intact?

I wonder how some of the similarly divisive media figures are feeling today, especially the public feminists who have risked so much to get us to this point? I know it’s a lot less risky in countries where guns aren’t readily available but look how angry that mob was that went after Posie in NZ?

I didn’t pay much attention to Charlie Kirk but I was vaguely aware of him as a sort of Matt Walsh type but specifically trying to communicate with Gen Z, whereas presumably Matt Walsh’s average audience is significantly older?
Condolences to his family - especially his young daughters.

Having unpopular, even unpalatable political opinions is not a capital offence and no one should lose their life due to stuff they’ve said.

Like many of us on here, I abhor many of his views. I acknowledge the irony in him being hoisted by his own petard ("a small number of deaths are a justifiable to maintain the second amendment") but I don't get any joy out of his assasination.

What a slippery slope it would be if murder was justifiable due to the sharing of opinions, no matter how horrendous they are.

And sadly I do wonder if this may be the case permanently. The chances of him being caught are getting less with each passing hour

People are assuming he would have changed his mind about supporting the second amendment if he knew it would have brought about his own death. And that’s where a lot of the crass comments and gloating mockery is coming from (“acknowledging the irony”). No one knows that to be the case. He believed passionately, like many Americans do, in the right to bear arms. Some people are willing to die for things they believe in, rightly or wrongly.

related thought:
I live in Manchester and whenever one of the major political parties has their conference here I’ve been really weirded out by all the snipers stationed on neighbouring roofs.

What happened to Charlie Kirk yesterday is a personal wake up call as to why such measures are necessary.

What a depressing thought.

"Gun violence deaths are the cost of keeping our 2nd amendment rights"

I don't think it's necessary about condemning or not, but rather pointing out the irony of his death being exactly what he has been fighting for.

That’s what the hahaha so funny he got murdered when he supported guns brigade are missing (no one on this thread, but there are on other boards here). He will be seen as a martyr. They’re not helping.

You’re not getting it. You think it’s “ironic” because you assume he would only have intended that others were collateral damage, not himself. People who support him won’t see it like that. They will see him as a martyr for why guns are entirely necessary.

This happens in the US because they won't legislate decent gun control.

Alanis Morrisette style ‘irony’ 😬

lethal force used against political figures is clearly seen as a credible threat in the U.K. despite our gun control laws!

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rooftop-snipers-10ft-barriers-first-21750361

This thread is unlikely to end well unfortunately.

I've been watching developments so far - the last FBI press conference said they were not going to release imagines of the subject at this stage to prevent further risks.

Why?

Well they also said that they had arrested and spoken to a number of people of interest who were no suspects and those people had subsequently already been threatened.

Last night on twitter there a name trending. On Tuesday a twitter account which had wished Charlie Kirk misfortune and said he knew something big was going to happen the next day (yesterday). Then it said 'oh my god, it wasnt me' then said 'but he deserved it'. The account then locked down. The account was of 'non-binary' man. So you can imagine what started happening in response on twitter... It wouldn't surprise me if this bloke is one of those who has been talking to the FBI.

The Mail reported last night there was a counter protest at the demo and after the event they cheered and were saying 'fingers cross' (that he would die). Whether that's true or not isn't really important - it's whether the report is believed and how people react to that. Perceptions not the truth are more important in all of this. This isn't helped today by Bluesky being full of many many posts saying Kirk deserved it or blaming Elon or Nazis or whatever...

So I really don't think speculation at this point is remotely helpful and is more likely to cause would be vigilantes to get wound up. We already had individuals in this country talking about a need for political assassinations because of ideas they don't like prior to yesterday. Kirk's death really isn't going to help that.

Kirk couldn't be anymore removed from my politics. But I can't but help arrange with him on the point that the difficult conversations in politics are the ones we should be having and a failure to have them is a massive problem within our society which has massive terrifying implications.

We have 'decent gun control control' and yet it didn't stop us having 24 gun fatalities last year and 27 the year before.
Charlie Kirk wasn't murdered by the lack of decent gun control, he wasn't murdered because he supposedly opposed gun control, and there's nothing ironic about him being murdered with a gun.

What a lot of non Usians miss when talking about the Second Amendment is it was created not to be able to arm yourself against other citizens, but so that a civilian militia could effectively check the power of a tyrannical federal government. This is deeply embedded in American history and education as a final safeguard against oppression in a way we've never really considered in the UK.

I had never heard of Charlie Kirk before last night, I think I would disagree with him on most topics, but if he was saying that the Second Amendment was worth possible gun deaths, its less likely he was saying "my right to feel manly holding a gun is more important than a toddler being shot" and more likely he was pointing out that the right to defend yourself against a tyrannical government is more important than collateral damage.

If people want to fight for better gun control they need to address the actual concerns of the people fighting to keep hold of them, rather than creating a strawman of their views.

https://x.com/Jonnywsbell/status/1965878774932844720

https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1965897958790164781

I respected HUGELY the way he went about talking to people. His opinions don't matter there, he was polite, respectful, calm. He actually debated. It's a genuine loss on that count.

His position on trans identified people was also, see the link, kind, supportive, fair, and reasonable. Every debate I saw him entering into on that count was worth watching.

The price of freedom of speech should not be death. We all should be talking more, engaging with people who think differently to us in the way he did more.

Interesting that in another video Kirk was said that when people stop speaking they turn to violence and he wanted more talk more discussion, less violence. But people don't talk about that video and rather his opinion on gun control.

It sets a dangerous precedent, in the UK you can be arrested at gunpoint for comments someone doesn't like, and in the USA you can be shot dead for comments someone doesn't like. And in both cases have those events celebrated by the BeKind brigade.

I disagree with many things he said but anyone who is seeking to justify, excuse or even celebrate his death has lost all moral compass.

Nobody should be killed for expressing disagreeable or even unlawful opinions. If you justify or excuse one death for thoughtcrimes what sort of society are you advocating for?