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VoulezVouz · 13/09/2025 11:46

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 10:35

People are collecting screenshots where people are openly celebrating Charlie Kirk’s murder and have their employment details etc, and using it to get people fired etc. So people who are inclined to do so should be careful to stay anonymous, I’m sure many of them would be fine if it was for misgendering or something though. It’s another interesting aspect of online culture, which is why I’m mentioning it here.

Is that some type of weird threat?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:47

I’m not interested in these low effort bad faith posts. Search my entire comment history if you like, I’m probably one of the most consistent posters on the board.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:47

VoulezVouz · 13/09/2025 11:46

Is that some type of weird threat?

No 🙄 why would it be?

VoulezVouz · 13/09/2025 11:48

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:44

Quote the “inconsistencies” please. Otherwise you’re just lying.

I don’t need to. If anyone feels the need to check, it’s right here in the thread.

VoulezVouz · 13/09/2025 11:49

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:47

No 🙄 why would it be?

We know it already. Why do you even feel the need to post it at this point in the thread?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:49

I have no idea who anyone is, if that’s what you’re extrapolating from that post, we’re all anonymous. I’m just remarking on another aspect of this, cancel culture and the tendency to try to get “consequences” for people you don’t agree with online.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:50

It’s usually much more likely to be used by the left, that’s why it’s interesting.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:51

VoulezVouz · 13/09/2025 11:48

I don’t need to. If anyone feels the need to check, it’s right here in the thread.

You can’t because it doesn’t exist.

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2025 11:51

I don't think he's a Groyper.

I think he was immersed in a world which most of us don't understand and don't recognise.

There's a decent chance he was taking the piss, even he was knowingly posing as a Groyper. Remember he dressed as Trump for Halloween.

The whole shtick of 4chan is to take the piss and do things for the lols. It can be overly serious but the flip is this ironic out of bounds humour that touches on things that can't be said out loud in the real world. It is very much about pushing boundaries and being as offensive as possible to anyone and everyone. It hates authority. Within it you have almost gangs and gang like behaviour. Sometimes people egg others on and sometimes you get these enormous fallouts because there are these weird codes of conduct of how you should and shouldn't behave. Anything goes except it doesn't. It's difficult to describe really except it's the wild west and therefore probably feels a bit edgy and dangerous to kids who live in a rigid world of straight behaviour where your whole life is mapped out at birth. It's people (over whelming male) who perhaps want to escape these expectations and don't conform who are probably most drawn to it.

So the above comment about expecting people who grew up when Michael Jackson was black and Elton John was straight doesn't even begin to get close to the issue.

Even young people often struggle to understand it. Trolling died something of a death over the course of the last ten years as cancel culture kicked in. Those of us who were early internet adopters and understood the wild west aspects and were onboard before internet search safety features were bought in, perhaps understand it better than may kids today who are just on the reaching end of abuse rather than understanding trolling. The way the internet has developed and you can block means you are protected from it to a degree that wasn't there before. You have to go off hunting for those communities whereas in the early days of the web, that was a huge part of the online world. This has survived mainly in gaming and through 4chan when it died off elsewhere.

So I don't think it's necessarily an age thing - there are people in their mid to late fourties like DH who would have an understanding but perhaps not be up to date with the latest shite and young people who are in their early twenties for whom this is a totally alien world. It's a mindset separate from the real world. It's niche and it's usually a world for outsiders and the disaffected. Which is why this element of anti-establishment is a reoccurring theme. There's a sense of hopelessness and frustration and an inability to raise certain subjects because they are taboo or off limits in society way which leads to these subjects becoming twisted and festering underground rather than being dealt with in the open (which ironically Kirk was right on). We perhaps understand coming from Incels as it's better known but I think this is potentially slightly different. It's an anger at the world not serving 'people like me' still. So anyone in establishment full stop - unless they've been through gaming or were part of this early online world won't have a clue how to deal with any of this even if they are young.

Curiously this guy from what's out there looks like he has probably engaged with extreme right wing stuff on some level even if he has rejected it. It's someone who has been exposed to a wider range of beliefs than it appears to someone who doesn't understand internet culture.

And then there's the elephant in the room; all shooters are the product of the failure of their own communities for some reason. And he was a product of a middle class conservative right wing gun loving Christian republican supporting family. And there's the problem of where do you go from that if you rebel? The governor's comment that he 'prayed it wasn't one of us' and that his prayers were not answered was a telling one. They know the issue is about a failure within their own community rather than it being a pure radicalisation issue. They know it's a disaffection issue but won't be willing to admit that. Looking inward is harder than looking outward. It would have been easier for the Christian Right to accept if it had been 'an outsider', and that's part of the point.

There's also the factor that he appears to have reacted in a way that you'd expect from someone with a gun touting right wing background would react if they felt betrayed by leadership from the right...

Has this come from university lecturers who again are part of the establishment? No this is online culture. This is gaming culture. This is again problematic for the Christian right because large parts of this world are heavily right wing and have issues that the Christian Right won't want to deal with because they support their way of life.

So yes I think we will see a back lash against 'left wing universities' because it's an easy out to deal with this scenario. Equally the left will put their hands on their ears and disavow this guy as not one of their own.

My final point which is noteworthy is that on of the features of radicalisation is this purity spiralling and need to 'prove' your values. There is a pattern of individuals who come from 'the outside' taking on behaviour which is more extreme than those who come from a background where those values were more typical. Thus you get converts to religion being more at risk to radicalisation because they feel extra pressure to prove they belong.

This shooting would therefore fit with patterns of radicalisation akin to religion, it would fit with a right wing gun culture, it would fit with youth disaffection with mainstream politics, it would fit with difficult online communities which are out of sight from authorities, it would fit with the lone, quiet gunman AND it would fit with uncontrolled and unchallenged purity spirals within left wing politics.

But I doubt you'll see many people reflect on all these patterns, instead they'll focus on whichever element best fits their agenda.

I think we have a perfect storm scenario that's only growing. I suspect we will see others from other areas as youth disaffection grows and anger at the establishment rises. Historical data shows revolutions and civil unrest is much more common with high youth unemployment / underemployment and declining standards of living regardless of political affiliation. It's important we look at this from all angles.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:52

If it was “right here in the thread” you’d have no problem quoting it 🤷‍♀️

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:55

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2025 11:51

I don't think he's a Groyper.

I think he was immersed in a world which most of us don't understand and don't recognise.

There's a decent chance he was taking the piss, even he was knowingly posing as a Groyper. Remember he dressed as Trump for Halloween.

The whole shtick of 4chan is to take the piss and do things for the lols. It can be overly serious but the flip is this ironic out of bounds humour that touches on things that can't be said out loud in the real world. It is very much about pushing boundaries and being as offensive as possible to anyone and everyone. It hates authority. Within it you have almost gangs and gang like behaviour. Sometimes people egg others on and sometimes you get these enormous fallouts because there are these weird codes of conduct of how you should and shouldn't behave. Anything goes except it doesn't. It's difficult to describe really except it's the wild west and therefore probably feels a bit edgy and dangerous to kids who live in a rigid world of straight behaviour where your whole life is mapped out at birth. It's people (over whelming male) who perhaps want to escape these expectations and don't conform who are probably most drawn to it.

So the above comment about expecting people who grew up when Michael Jackson was black and Elton John was straight doesn't even begin to get close to the issue.

Even young people often struggle to understand it. Trolling died something of a death over the course of the last ten years as cancel culture kicked in. Those of us who were early internet adopters and understood the wild west aspects and were onboard before internet search safety features were bought in, perhaps understand it better than may kids today who are just on the reaching end of abuse rather than understanding trolling. The way the internet has developed and you can block means you are protected from it to a degree that wasn't there before. You have to go off hunting for those communities whereas in the early days of the web, that was a huge part of the online world. This has survived mainly in gaming and through 4chan when it died off elsewhere.

So I don't think it's necessarily an age thing - there are people in their mid to late fourties like DH who would have an understanding but perhaps not be up to date with the latest shite and young people who are in their early twenties for whom this is a totally alien world. It's a mindset separate from the real world. It's niche and it's usually a world for outsiders and the disaffected. Which is why this element of anti-establishment is a reoccurring theme. There's a sense of hopelessness and frustration and an inability to raise certain subjects because they are taboo or off limits in society way which leads to these subjects becoming twisted and festering underground rather than being dealt with in the open (which ironically Kirk was right on). We perhaps understand coming from Incels as it's better known but I think this is potentially slightly different. It's an anger at the world not serving 'people like me' still. So anyone in establishment full stop - unless they've been through gaming or were part of this early online world won't have a clue how to deal with any of this even if they are young.

Curiously this guy from what's out there looks like he has probably engaged with extreme right wing stuff on some level even if he has rejected it. It's someone who has been exposed to a wider range of beliefs than it appears to someone who doesn't understand internet culture.

And then there's the elephant in the room; all shooters are the product of the failure of their own communities for some reason. And he was a product of a middle class conservative right wing gun loving Christian republican supporting family. And there's the problem of where do you go from that if you rebel? The governor's comment that he 'prayed it wasn't one of us' and that his prayers were not answered was a telling one. They know the issue is about a failure within their own community rather than it being a pure radicalisation issue. They know it's a disaffection issue but won't be willing to admit that. Looking inward is harder than looking outward. It would have been easier for the Christian Right to accept if it had been 'an outsider', and that's part of the point.

There's also the factor that he appears to have reacted in a way that you'd expect from someone with a gun touting right wing background would react if they felt betrayed by leadership from the right...

Has this come from university lecturers who again are part of the establishment? No this is online culture. This is gaming culture. This is again problematic for the Christian right because large parts of this world are heavily right wing and have issues that the Christian Right won't want to deal with because they support their way of life.

So yes I think we will see a back lash against 'left wing universities' because it's an easy out to deal with this scenario. Equally the left will put their hands on their ears and disavow this guy as not one of their own.

My final point which is noteworthy is that on of the features of radicalisation is this purity spiralling and need to 'prove' your values. There is a pattern of individuals who come from 'the outside' taking on behaviour which is more extreme than those who come from a background where those values were more typical. Thus you get converts to religion being more at risk to radicalisation because they feel extra pressure to prove they belong.

This shooting would therefore fit with patterns of radicalisation akin to religion, it would fit with a right wing gun culture, it would fit with youth disaffection with mainstream politics, it would fit with difficult online communities which are out of sight from authorities, it would fit with the lone, quiet gunman AND it would fit with uncontrolled and unchallenged purity spirals within left wing politics.

But I doubt you'll see many people reflect on all these patterns, instead they'll focus on whichever element best fits their agenda.

I think we have a perfect storm scenario that's only growing. I suspect we will see others from other areas as youth disaffection grows and anger at the establishment rises. Historical data shows revolutions and civil unrest is much more common with high youth unemployment / underemployment and declining standards of living regardless of political affiliation. It's important we look at this from all angles.

I spent all yesterday trying to get my head around it via lurking on certain sites, but I suspect a lot of these are private discord groups with their own sub sub cultures.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 11:58

@RedToothBrush one aspect that you touched on in your previous post was something chilling; that sometimes people (specially young males) do something because they can. I just wonder if that was at play here too.

Gun handling is normalized, the sense of 'us and them, us against them' along with a good dollop of no one understands us' and 'we are superior' in there too, and absolutely zero experience of any real hardships or challenges in life - of any real loss and what it does to people and families.

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2025 11:59

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:55

I spent all yesterday trying to get my head around it via lurking on certain sites, but I suspect a lot of these are private discord groups with their own sub sub cultures.

They are. DH is a discord group (it's not anything like this or extreme but it does owe it's origins to gaming - though it's no longer connected to that and has taken in people not from that over the years) and honestly even for me it's alien. I've met a few of his friends from around the world on it now and they are really nice but there's some proper weirdos and fruit loops too.

I don't doubt everyone in a discord with this guy will be looked at very hard now.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:59

Another really interesting aspect about the wider media and social media landscape is the need to control the narrative at all costs and as pp have said this is going on on both sides, with people not really knowing what or who to believe.

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2025 11:59

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 11:58

@RedToothBrush one aspect that you touched on in your previous post was something chilling; that sometimes people (specially young males) do something because they can. I just wonder if that was at play here too.

Gun handling is normalized, the sense of 'us and them, us against them' along with a good dollop of no one understands us' and 'we are superior' in there too, and absolutely zero experience of any real hardships or challenges in life - of any real loss and what it does to people and families.

'Just for the lols' as a motivation has crossed my mind tbh.

nauticant · 13/09/2025 12:02

To me your post is a far better fit with the sparse facts available than anything I've read in the mainstream/Right or Left leaning media@RedToothBrush.

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2025 12:06

DH and I have been saying there's issues that the mainstream don't get for well over a decade. It doesn't remotely surprise us unfortunately.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 12:07

I think that’s the problem a lot of people had with “Adolescence” for example. That it’s a bit of a simplistic way of looking at it, and the Online Safety Act is a simplistic way of tackling it.

nauticant · 13/09/2025 12:08

It's commonly understood that you can read the mainstream media and happily take it all in and then one day it covers an area you have expertise in and you realise that the reporting of that is either piss-poor or actively misleading.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 12:10

~if~ that's the case, it's not far from fame-seeking mass shooters. Not quite the same, but close.

The gun culture just enables it.

But the rancid political situation means it will be used for pointscoring anyway.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 12:10

And on FWR we know how bad some of the reporting has been of things that we understand. So it makes me very wary of listening to the media on anything.

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2025 12:14

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 12:07

I think that’s the problem a lot of people had with “Adolescence” for example. That it’s a bit of a simplistic way of looking at it, and the Online Safety Act is a simplistic way of tackling it.

It's a fucking useless way of dealing with a failure of society problem. Banning things won't change the problem unfortunately imho.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 12:23

Agreed @RedToothBrush didn’t they even say they’re going to show Adolescence in every school or something? What do they think that’s going to achieve? It isn’t particularly centred on the female victim, either. It’s a gripping drama but that’s all.

RedToothBrush · 13/09/2025 12:24

Don't get me started on mobile phones either...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 12:24

Quite!

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