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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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TheCatsTongue · 13/09/2025 10:28

RedToothBrush · 12/09/2025 21:53

Ok, I've had a look at various explanations of these bullet casings. DHs first reaction was 4chan and that this will likely lead to a bunch of arrests of people who were on the same discord as him. There's some speculation that he was on an antifascist discord. I think that's probably what will happen but beyond that I think it's all a bit of a mess.

In terms of his politics this seems to be a point of some contention with a lot of attempts to disown him and blame 'the other side'.

There's a theory that he was a Groyper. A Groyper is a product of 4chan - they are what was the alt-right. More far right than the conservative right and have had a particular beef with Kirk and Turning Point for not being extreme enough. There's a photo of him doing the 'squatting slave meme' and much speculation about this and whether it's a form or the Pepe Meme or not. However he did call Kirk a fascist though bizarrely this apparently is something a Groyper might do. (Remember the Russians call Ukrainians fascist).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groypers

This would fit with his background of being a conservative and coming from a family who were into guns. But this doesn't tally with family accounts of becoming more political lately and criticised Kirk for spreading hate. Nor does it tally with his supposed membership of the Democratic Socialists of America (far left group) which photos suggest.

Then there's another take.

The reference Bella Ciao is supposed to be an antifascist reference and that he was far left. Which does fit with family accounts and the above political leanings.

Then there's a third, and although more difficult explanation. That he was a gamer who was brainwashed by violence and didn't have particularly set politics and instead was deeply embedded into online culture and detached from a particular position. Instead he had in effect rejected all religious and felt that life had no meaning. A form of hopeless rather than more of a coherent ideological belief. This actually perhaps more sense than the previous too.

A confused kid reading all kinds of extreme internet bollocks and not really understanding much of it fully thus picking up a range of different 'funny' shit (which isn't funny). 4chan isn't necessarily right or left wing - it's this weird mix of extremist, chaotic, simply troll crap for the lols which doesn't necessarily make much sense. It's more bothered about shit posting and winding up people than being organised and having an overarching political view. It's deeply misogynistic, extreme and offensive and that really the only points.

Notably both me and DH were going wtf at the press conference earlier about how amateur and ill thought out his assassination plan was. The word I used was that he sounded like a complete n00b. ("N00b" is an alternative, derogatory spelling of the slang term "newbie" or "noob," which refers to someone inexperienced or unskilled in a particular activity, especially online.) Its grossly naive, but probably seems very clever to him. It just makes no sense though in terms of how he planned it. It just seems like someone 'playing' at gaming in the real world and seeing if he could get away with it. Almost for fun and no other really deep reasoning. It has this feeling that he could no longer tell the real world from the online world and the fantasy in his head was that he could get away with it.

So option perhaps actually makes the most sense to me, but if that's the case then the world is going to have some fun trying to remotely understand Kirk's murder as far from having great significant political meaning, it's really a utterly meaningless waste of life and pretty anarchistic in practice. I'm not sure the world could cope with this explanation if it's the closest to reality.

Here a summary of this last theory in a bit more depth.

Leila AT LeilaClaire
I don’t want to be the first person to point this out, but to gamers “Bella Ciao” was not a song sung by “anti-fascists” but a collectible and the background music in a main quest in Far Cry 6, which is probably REAL relevant given his other gaming references

Zaid Jilani AT ZaidJilani
This is going to expose me as a gamer but both the arrows and the fascist reference they mention for the shooters ammo are direct references to the video game Helldivers 2 and are common memes.

Meaning extremely online gamer type, less so political manifesto.

I assume some FBI boomer saw these and doesn’t play video games and thought to himself oh that must be a transgender, antifa thing and that’s how we got the WSJ story

This is why the FBI and WSJ should employ more gamers.

Helldivers 2 is basically a satire like starship troopers it’s all tongue in cheek.

I’m not saying he doesn’t have any political ideology but if I had to guess the fact he scrawled internet memes on his stuff puts him more into the online nihilist camp and any politics is secondary.

And I think this studio is gonna have to put out a statement within 24 hours

Our first Video Game Extremist

No, I don't think video games make people violent. Disturbed people probably spend a lot of time indoors doing lonely activities though and so it became a cultural means for him to express his violence.

I genuinely don't know, but I get the sense that I'm not convinced this is as simplistic and black and white as people would like it to be or that it appeared on the initial surface. I'm open minded about where this heads now.

The only conclusion I draw is that he was mixed up with online communities that are fucked in the head and that's about as far as I get.

I've got to say that those references to features in computer games are incredibly niche, niche of the niche, so I personally think it's unlikely.

Definitely someone influenced by online culture, and with all of these celebrations at the murder online because someone had open debates and held opposing opinion, it just generates more hate.

If you had an AI running over BlueSky it would become a mass killer of anyone who didn't agree 100% with the current left-wing viewpoint (particularly as feminism has been ejected from the left).

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 13/09/2025 10:31

BeeSourianteAgain · 12/09/2025 21:26

Apologies, I previously stated that the murderer was an anti-fascist - he is actually a groyper i.e. alt-right and radicalised on sites like KF and 4C. So more in line with 'gender critical' ideology.

Obviously murder is wrong, but so is aligning yourself with the far right, as many 'gender critical' activists are having a pikachu moment about.

So far NO apologies and just a single correction by the Wall Street Journal.

Sadly I can't even post some of the utter vileness I have seen from anti-trans types in the last two days as I'm sure I'd get immediately banned from here, but there's a whole load of people who really need to grow up (and get off extremist sites as they're rotting their brains).

Do you have anything to say about the "utter vileness" and misinformation on social media by "progressives" and TRAs?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 10:32

VoulezVouz · 13/09/2025 10:15

Hmm. Okay. This is somewhat disingenuous. I’m not assuming he is a right-wing groyper, but that is one of the leading theories (and not from internet sleuths). If you think a person like this is left-wing, your own bias is showing. Not mine.

He’s certainly more likely to be a right-wing groyper than trans.

And for the last time, I didn’t say he specifically was trans. Due to the violent rhetoric of the TRA community online, which you handwaved away as “bias” when another poster pointed it out, I said it wouldn’t surprise me.

The violent fantasies of many of these men never surprise me, I’ve seen literally thousands of violent threats towards women and sometimes men that they disagree with. So you’re either ignoring this, or you’re naive.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 10:35

People are collecting screenshots where people are openly celebrating Charlie Kirk’s murder and have their employment details etc, and using it to get people fired etc. So people who are inclined to do so should be careful to stay anonymous, I’m sure many of them would be fine if it was for misgendering or something though. It’s another interesting aspect of online culture, which is why I’m mentioning it here.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 10:37

There is a website with over 20k screenshots.

SionnachRuadh · 13/09/2025 10:42

TheCatsTongue · 13/09/2025 10:28

I've got to say that those references to features in computer games are incredibly niche, niche of the niche, so I personally think it's unlikely.

Definitely someone influenced by online culture, and with all of these celebrations at the murder online because someone had open debates and held opposing opinion, it just generates more hate.

If you had an AI running over BlueSky it would become a mass killer of anyone who didn't agree 100% with the current left-wing viewpoint (particularly as feminism has been ejected from the left).

Yes. If he's basically a socially awkward and chronically online young man then it's probably a fool's errand trying to find an organisation or coherent ideology driving him. It's more likely he's DIYed a personal ideology out of his own very idiosyncratic likes and dislikes and grievances. Anything we get this side of the trial is more than likely to be speculation.

For all we know, he could have built an obsessive hatred of Kirk out of his parents saying, "that Charlie Kirk on Fox News seems a bright young guy, why can't you be more like him". Or he could have been an obsessive Star Wars fan who spent way too long reading Mark Hamill ranting on Bluesky about how Republinazis need to be removed from society. Or any motivation you can imagine. Better to wait and learn than try and fit him into a convenient pigeonhole.

GoldThumb · 13/09/2025 10:42

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 10:37

There is a website with over 20k screenshots.

Crazy

OneAmberFinch · 13/09/2025 11:04

[Speculation/musing alert]

FWIW, and though I agree that it is incredibly difficult to detangle online factions, it's impossible to know, and the ambiguity is probably part of the trolling --

-- I'll still be a lot more surprised if this does turn out to be an alt-right "groyper" "MAGA on MAGA" "right-winger who didn't think Charlie Kirk went far enough" case.

My money is either on no ideology, just a radicalised gamer (perhaps influenced by the positive attention of the United Health & BlackRock exec shootings), or antifa-adjacent alt-left.

This is just my gut feeling based on the limited context I have on groyper and antifa internet subcultures and their respective tendencies to translate their ideologies to real life violence.

I'll "update my priors" if I'm wrong and I'm writing this down to force myself to do so!

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 11:10

VoulezVouz · 13/09/2025 02:56

That wasn’t what you were saying 15 hours ago, but okay. You were all for him being a TRA with a grudge. He’s more than likely a right-wing Nick Fuentes Groyper type. Donʼt listen to me though!

If you observe that particular poster, they've so far spoken with great authority while telling other people what to do, imagining what other people are thinking and feeling (heavily projecting and assuming) while shifting their position more than once.

Nor are they willing to actually ~listen~ if you observe them.

There's something going on there and it's not honest.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:17

Don’t be silly @ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 11:18

Question, and I really don't know the answer to this: was there this much attention to an out-of-the-blue attack when Nancy Pelosi's 90+ year old husband was attacked and nearly killed?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:19

I’d appreciate it if people could stop lying about my posts. I’ve been extremely clear why I was criticising people for making light of Kirk’s death, and why I am focussed on it on this FWR thread. You should advance search some of the other posters on this thread for their “honest” posts.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 11:22

Anyone who notices your inconsistencies is lying? You keep throwing that accusation around. Very disingenuous of you. You do keep telling people what to do, too ;)

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:23

Go on, quote my “inconsistencies” then.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:26

The thing with fake news, just making a general point, is that people who spread it know that on the internet most people won’t check to see whether a statement is true. They just come out with it, knowing that many people will believe them.

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 11:28

Other people have noticed them - which you tried to brush over. I'm afraid I have other things to do than waste time on you, I simply posted a note to VoulezVouz that she isn't the only one who noticed some very strange aspects in posts from someone who consistently talks down to others, tells them what to do, assigns emotions to them that there is no evidence is there, speaks authorititatively based on apparently little, shifts position and tries to distract.

I don't believe you are posting in good faith.

TheCatsTongue · 13/09/2025 11:29

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 11:18

Question, and I really don't know the answer to this: was there this much attention to an out-of-the-blue attack when Nancy Pelosi's 90+ year old husband was attacked and nearly killed?

Whataboutery.

A major difference is one died the other didn't. One was murdered in a public space with thousands of eye-witnesses, one was attacked via a home invasion.

This is more of this "silence is violence" nonsense by trying to find a similar issue and kicking off about it.

In the UK we have had a Labour MP murdered and a Conservative MP murdered, and less than 24 hours after the Kirk assassination a Labour MP's office was fire-bombed, but UK users aren't going on "what about this", to deflect the attention away and to attack the people who are against ALL political murders.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:30

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 11:28

Other people have noticed them - which you tried to brush over. I'm afraid I have other things to do than waste time on you, I simply posted a note to VoulezVouz that she isn't the only one who noticed some very strange aspects in posts from someone who consistently talks down to others, tells them what to do, assigns emotions to them that there is no evidence is there, speaks authorititatively based on apparently little, shifts position and tries to distract.

I don't believe you are posting in good faith.

of course your time is far too precious to actually back up your false claims about me 😂

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 13/09/2025 11:32

@TheCatsTongue actually it wasn't whataboutery. It is part of a pattern, and I'm very concerned (not that I can do anything) about how and where attention is being focused. Because Mr Pelosi could very easily have died, very easily, and the sheer rejoicing in assassinations and attacks on either side is terrifying.

I was simply trying to find out, so I asked here.

So no, it wasn't 'silence is violence' - what does that even mean anyway?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:36

I think a lot of left leaning people online don’t really understand why ordinary people are so shocked by a man, whoever he is, being shot by a sniper on a university campus, while he was doing a public debate. I find it baffling that they don’t understand. They have to ascribe some ulterior motive to people being shocked.

OneAmberFinch · 13/09/2025 11:37

There was quite a lot of news and discussion about Nancy Pelosi's husband...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:38

I would be equally shocked if it was a leftist commentator, eg someone like Owen Jones or similar, shot at a public event.

nauticant · 13/09/2025 11:43

So, we discuss Nancy Perlosi's husband, get that done, and then how many more are on the yet-to-be-discussed people before we can talk about Tyler Robinson, what he did and what next, without more derailing?

VoulezVouz · 13/09/2025 11:43

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:19

I’d appreciate it if people could stop lying about my posts. I’ve been extremely clear why I was criticising people for making light of Kirk’s death, and why I am focussed on it on this FWR thread. You should advance search some of the other posters on this thread for their “honest” posts.

No-one made light of his death on this thread. Neither is anyone lying about your posts.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2025 11:44

Quote the “inconsistencies” please. Otherwise you’re just lying.

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