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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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16
fromorbit · 28/08/2025 09:52

PronounssheRa · 28/08/2025 09:32

Its too late to solve the gun control issue in the States. There are more guns than people, and absolutely no chance of getting even half off the streets.

Other approaches are needed, different interventions to stop people from becoming mass shooters. This guys social media output had red flags all over it, but no one appears to have done anything about it.

Some Americans can keep their guns without much risk. One sex does most of the killing:

Guys and guns: Why men are behind the vast majority of America's gun violence
https://abcnews.go.com/US/guys-guns-men-vast-majority-americas-gun-violence/story?id=79125485

Guys and guns: Why men are behind the vast majority of America's gun violence

Several experts said it comes down to America's dangerous combination of toxic masculinity and with gun availability.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/guys-guns-men-vast-majority-americas-gun-violence/story?id=79125485

RingoJuice · 28/08/2025 09:54

fromorbit · 28/08/2025 09:52

Some Americans can keep their guns without much risk. One sex does most of the killing:

Guys and guns: Why men are behind the vast majority of America's gun violence
https://abcnews.go.com/US/guys-guns-men-vast-majority-americas-gun-violence/story?id=79125485

Not a surprise since men cause the vast majority of the violent crime! And those women who did engage in mass killings … well did not identify themselves as such.

PermanentTemporary · 28/08/2025 09:57

I don’t think it’s completely irrelevant that this person identified as trans, but I’d agree that the important pattern here is that guns are freely available to people outside of army discipline, including to those who are demonstrably psychologically fragile, and if they are also relentlessly promoted eg in movies and TV as a positive form of self defence for the vulnerable, and a way of quickly accessing national identity, and sexual identity, and self actualisation, then of course people are going to die in their tens of thousands.

I watched a completely ordinary movie last night. The moment that the hero, previously being pushed around by the villain, picks up the gun is the moment he proves himself to actually be a hero. The moment he shoots someone to protect his wife is the moment she melts into his arms. The moment the minor character blasts someone away to avenge the death of his husband is the moment he proves he’s a real man. All American movies are like that.

ArabellaScott · 28/08/2025 10:05

Collaborate · 28/08/2025 09:45

I get it that this part of MN has a particular agenda against trans people, but the vast majority of shootings in the US are carried out by CIS white males who are far right/fascists. This shooter seems to be far right too. Yet you focus on their apparent trans status as the reason for this rather than what it is that links them to the other shooters, which is their right wing ideology. The same right wing ideology that would seek to whittle away at womens rights by curtailing abortion rights and the right to vote. If you don't believe me about the right to vote thing, see here: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/21/politics/john-gibbs-womens-suffrage-19th-amendment-kfile/index.html Womens rights are being attacked by the far right both in the US and the UK. They're pointing at trans people and telling you you should be scared of them instead.

How's it 'right wing' when his gun had 'fuck trump' written on it?

ThatBlackCat · 28/08/2025 10:05

Collaborate · 28/08/2025 09:45

I get it that this part of MN has a particular agenda against trans people, but the vast majority of shootings in the US are carried out by CIS white males who are far right/fascists. This shooter seems to be far right too. Yet you focus on their apparent trans status as the reason for this rather than what it is that links them to the other shooters, which is their right wing ideology. The same right wing ideology that would seek to whittle away at womens rights by curtailing abortion rights and the right to vote. If you don't believe me about the right to vote thing, see here: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/21/politics/john-gibbs-womens-suffrage-19th-amendment-kfile/index.html Womens rights are being attacked by the far right both in the US and the UK. They're pointing at trans people and telling you you should be scared of them instead.

You clearly don't 'get it' at all, @Collaborate . You really, truly just don't get it. It's about MALES. Not 'trans'. And btw, most trans are white males. So, it's the same group.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/08/2025 10:09

Collaborate · 28/08/2025 09:45

I get it that this part of MN has a particular agenda against trans people, but the vast majority of shootings in the US are carried out by CIS white males who are far right/fascists. This shooter seems to be far right too. Yet you focus on their apparent trans status as the reason for this rather than what it is that links them to the other shooters, which is their right wing ideology. The same right wing ideology that would seek to whittle away at womens rights by curtailing abortion rights and the right to vote. If you don't believe me about the right to vote thing, see here: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/21/politics/john-gibbs-womens-suffrage-19th-amendment-kfile/index.html Womens rights are being attacked by the far right both in the US and the UK. They're pointing at trans people and telling you you should be scared of them instead.

There is no such thing as “cis”. Male violence is male violence. However, it is clearly significant that in a small population, there have been several of these recent shootings by trans identified young people. Mostly by trans identified women.

ThatBlackCat · 28/08/2025 10:17

Collaborate · 28/08/2025 09:45

I get it that this part of MN has a particular agenda against trans people, but the vast majority of shootings in the US are carried out by CIS white males who are far right/fascists. This shooter seems to be far right too. Yet you focus on their apparent trans status as the reason for this rather than what it is that links them to the other shooters, which is their right wing ideology. The same right wing ideology that would seek to whittle away at womens rights by curtailing abortion rights and the right to vote. If you don't believe me about the right to vote thing, see here: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/21/politics/john-gibbs-womens-suffrage-19th-amendment-kfile/index.html Womens rights are being attacked by the far right both in the US and the UK. They're pointing at trans people and telling you you should be scared of them instead.

As to your 'it's the far right teaching you to be scared of trans people' (we're scared of MALES, however they identify. That they are 'trans' is just incidental), perhaps you should read this:

Minnesota mass shooting suspect - Tran activist.
Minnesota mass shooting suspect - Tran activist.
ArabellaScott · 28/08/2025 10:18

ArabellaScott · 28/08/2025 10:05

How's it 'right wing' when his gun had 'fuck trump' written on it?

Correction: the gun had 'Kill Donald Trump' written on it.

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2025 10:22

It's men. Men who want more sex. Men who think they are special.

If you tell a young man he's special because he's rich, or intelligent, or sporty, or so over-imaginative he thinks he has a gender, you'd better put in a lot of work to give him things to do and things to think about rather than leaving him to massage his ego and build up resentment at all the people who don't think about him one way or the other because they have lives.

Particularly if you live in a country full of guns.

And you really shouldn't push drugs, legal or illegal, at him.

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2025 10:28

rich, or intelligent, or sporty, or so over-imaginative he thinks he has a gender

or, indeed because of his race or religion or nationality

Men. Males.

PermanentTemporary · 28/08/2025 10:30

It’s fairly easy to find that 4 recent mass shootings are thought to have had perpetrators who identified as trans or nonbinary. In separate figures, 4 total mass shootings in the last couple of decades are reported as by women. That’s a tiny number in the total number of mass shootings done. Even if the 3 shootings possibly by women in the trans figures, were added on to the 4 shootings said to be by women in general, that’s still single figures. Well over 90% of mass shootings are done by men. Theres an increase in young people identifying as trans which is showing up a little in mass shootings.

It is frustrating that sites accurately recording those numbers and pointing out correctly that conspiracy theories about hordes of trans killers are bunk, are constraining themselves from defining the sex of perpetrators, because it is quite important that we do have accurate information.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 28/08/2025 10:30

The assertion that most mass shootings are committed by the far right is likely to be theno true Scotsman fallacy. I believe the current murderer has already been described as far right on ITV news.

As for saying women are 'scared' of people who identify as trans because the far right told us to be, this treats woman as mindless puppets for an agenda rather than the rational - and entirely correct - human beings we have had to prove ourselves to be in the face of a mass delusion. As usual.

lechiffre55 · 28/08/2025 10:39

ArabellaScott · 28/08/2025 10:18

Correction: the gun had 'Kill Donald Trump' written on it.

There was all sorts of nonsense written on the guns.
"so long and thanks for all the fish" - A Douglas Adams Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy quote.
Also written onto one gun was the name "McVeigh" referring presumably to Timothy McVeigh. A US anti-government domestic terrorist who killed 167 people (including 19 children), injured 684 people, when he bombed a Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995 in retaliation for a variety of very different reasons. The jumbled variety of different reasons sort of being reflected in the words and memes of this Minnesota shooter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
To take one word or comment as the motivation is to deliberately ignore all the other words and memes this shooter had scrawled everywhere.
As you say to call him right wing, when one magazine had "Kill Donald Trump" written on it, and another had a ton of anti-semitism which in the old days could have been considered far right but today is definitiely a favourite cause of the far left, seems willfully ignorant.
The guy had mental issues coming out of the wazoo. He was a radicalised mentally deranged lunatic.

Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

OP posts:
EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 28/08/2025 10:41

ThatBlackCat · 28/08/2025 08:22

Trans are overwhelmingly privileged white males.

That's relevant too.

Serial killers are also mainly white male for some reason too.

i guess facts are useful after all to glean accurate data that create statistics.

NextRinny · 28/08/2025 11:14

Hmm

So individual commits murder suicide.

Scenario 1: media reports woman kills young children.

Scenario 2: media reports transwoman kills young children

Scenario 3: media reports male kills young children

Scenario 4: media reports male of the trans community kills young children

Scenario 5: media reports young children were killed.

Only 2 scenarios (1 and 5) are acceptable to the people the killer identifies with. Both scenarios obscure the identity of the community he identifies with. They are so exclusive of their own. Men and Women have to own it if one of theirs kills children. There is no hiding. But this community hides all it's bad apples in everyone else's baskets.

I don't care if he killed them as cis or trans or as an alien from outer space.

Own your own shit.

lechiffre55 · 28/08/2025 11:15

Please could MNers stop with the using absolute numbers as a metric. I realise they are more readily available but it makes a mockery.
If the majority of a population is pink, saying most crime xxx is committed by pinks is meaningless. They make up the majority, they are going to be responsible for the majority of anything in that population. Eating breakfast, crossing the road, sitting and watching telly. When there's a vast majority in a population of one group, that majority will have the highest numbers no matter what you are looking at. The poorness of that argument makes me think people don't know what they are talking about.

In a hypothetical land far away live green and purple people. Among the population of this land the 1,000 green people own boats, and only 100 purple people own boats. Yes the green people own 10 times as many boats as the purple people. This sounds very unfair. Until you learn there are 1,000,000 green people and 100 purple people making up the population.
1 in 1,000 green people owns a boat, every single purple person owns a boat. Now it seems pretty unfair the other way around.

Be it disease, murder, whatever, ignoring the ratios of people to the thing being discussed makes arguments based on "most xxxx is comitted by yyyy" utterly stupid.

OP posts:
BreatheAndFocus · 28/08/2025 11:20

i don’t think the fact he’s trans is irrelevant. I’d also stress that I do not think all trans people have MH issues. However, in some cases the trans identity, particularly in young people, is a signifier of mental and emotional struggles. I see it like a shield for the ego. It’s wrongly seen as the answer - but it isn’t. When that becomes apparent, MH can deteriorate.

This man wrote things that were obviously not based on reality, alongside the hate and posturing. He wrote he had cancer from vaping because he had some symptoms, but this was, no doubt, crap and a sign of paranoia/anxiety/depression.

What I find creepiest of all was the end of his alleged letter where he goes on about love being the most important thing. What? ‘Love’ like murdering innocent children in cold blood? He had zero care or understanding of other people. Even the friends he referred to in his letter were probably seen as satellites of the great Him himself, only relevant for what they could provide to him, not people in their own right.

This egocentric thought is far too common in ‘trans’ young people. It’s not always malicious, but it’s there. This is why the first and last ports of call for young people with trans identities should be psychological assessment.

When I looked at Sky and the BBC last night, both were studiously avoiding using pronouns. He was “the person”, “the attacker”. I see that Sky have used “he” this morning, but couldn’t find a “he” in the BBC reports earlier.

This is not a woman’s crime. It’s a man’s crime. Trying to dance around that does nothing to help solve male violence.

DeanElderberry · 28/08/2025 11:43

I do think all trans people have mental health difficulties. Imagining that your sex obliges you to conform to gender stereotypes is crazy enough, imagining that conforming to the stereotypes of the opposite sex entitles you to nebulous privileges only available to that sex is totally nutso.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/08/2025 11:50

BreatheAndFocus · 28/08/2025 11:20

i don’t think the fact he’s trans is irrelevant. I’d also stress that I do not think all trans people have MH issues. However, in some cases the trans identity, particularly in young people, is a signifier of mental and emotional struggles. I see it like a shield for the ego. It’s wrongly seen as the answer - but it isn’t. When that becomes apparent, MH can deteriorate.

This man wrote things that were obviously not based on reality, alongside the hate and posturing. He wrote he had cancer from vaping because he had some symptoms, but this was, no doubt, crap and a sign of paranoia/anxiety/depression.

What I find creepiest of all was the end of his alleged letter where he goes on about love being the most important thing. What? ‘Love’ like murdering innocent children in cold blood? He had zero care or understanding of other people. Even the friends he referred to in his letter were probably seen as satellites of the great Him himself, only relevant for what they could provide to him, not people in their own right.

This egocentric thought is far too common in ‘trans’ young people. It’s not always malicious, but it’s there. This is why the first and last ports of call for young people with trans identities should be psychological assessment.

When I looked at Sky and the BBC last night, both were studiously avoiding using pronouns. He was “the person”, “the attacker”. I see that Sky have used “he” this morning, but couldn’t find a “he” in the BBC reports earlier.

This is not a woman’s crime. It’s a man’s crime. Trying to dance around that does nothing to help solve male violence.

Yes, all of this. The paragraph I posted earlier about the “Zizian” cult is spot on.

NotBadConsidering · 28/08/2025 11:56

I see that Sky have used “he” this morning, but couldn’t find a “he” in the BBC reports earlier.

The BBC Verify thread is calling him “she”. The tragic irony of expecting readers to believe the apparent facts they’re uncovering through supposed in depth analysis while presenting it with a bare-faced lie.

GiraffesAtThePark · 28/08/2025 12:09

I read the BBC report and was suspicious of the killer actually being a woman. Got onto the independent article and I noticed it was written in a way to avoid pronouns. Then eventually got to the part where they said the killer was trans. It’s not great journalism. Though I think it’s slowly changing as media which in the past which would have used woman and she/her are now avoiding it at least.

VoulezVouz · 28/08/2025 12:14

ArabellaScott · 28/08/2025 10:05

How's it 'right wing' when his gun had 'fuck trump' written on it?

It is possible to be right-wing but not MAGA.

RingoJuice · 28/08/2025 12:20

Tbh it’s not helpful to ascribe any set of political beliefs on this guy. He will not fit neatly into any of them because he’s obviously not mentally well.

lechiffre55 · 28/08/2025 12:25

RingoJuice · 28/08/2025 12:20

Tbh it’s not helpful to ascribe any set of political beliefs on this guy. He will not fit neatly into any of them because he’s obviously not mentally well.

Agreed.
People trying to fit him onto a political side is just trying to use him to suit their own goals. He was angry and mentally exteremely unwell.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 28/08/2025 12:26

RingoJuice · 28/08/2025 12:20

Tbh it’s not helpful to ascribe any set of political beliefs on this guy. He will not fit neatly into any of them because he’s obviously not mentally well.

Exactly. He appears to be highly disordered and deranged. I find it surprising that the authorities are ascribing any sort of motive at this stage.

Ascribing political motives to him/his actions seems frankly absurd.

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