Why don't trans women care if women feel unsafe?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I listened to the Stephen Nolan show earlier on BBC Sounds. They were discussing the FA ban on male players in the female category. A lady from SEEN in Sport was on and was great.

Then there were two transwomen on (one who is involved with Mermaids). There was lots of talk about their feelings and some quite infuriating twisting of scientific fact (women come in all shapes and sizes, so transwomen have no advantage). But one thing that came up several times was how they didn't feel safe using male facilities. Stephen Nolan did the faux naive thing quite effectively and tried to turn it around to get them to consider other people's viewpoints, unsuccessfully. It was back to their feelings again. The levels of entitlement was quite astonishing.

Why don't they ever consider women who feel unsafe sharing spaces with males? Is it because these women are just bigots that need to be re-educated and reframe their trauma?

“The issue I have is that it’s clear not one person who is commenting knows anyone trans.”

Considering many of the posters know people with transgender identities, and may even have them in their everyday lives, it seems that you lack the basic knowledge about the people you choose to malign with such accusations.

Sure, you can be perfectly happy sharing single sex spaces with the opposite sex . Do you understand that you don’t get to consent for other people? And that your opinion on this is the minority in the UK?

Considering the interviews today from one of the 28 nurses that complained about sharing a communal changing room in Darlington, I think you might find that people think your post is fucking tone deaf.

I’m happy for you that you’re never been threatened or felt unsafe around any trans women. Lots of women have though. And I would guess that all women have been threatened by or felt unsafe around men.

what’s to be done to provide toilets and Chang rooms where those women feel safe?

You do realise don't you that many of us have personal experience with transwomen hence our views?

None are the sinister stereotypes I hear on here.
and
but personally I’ve never been threatened or felt unsafe around any trans women, I’ve worked with them, done courses with them, shared toilets with them

Sorry but if a male has invaded a female only sex-based space, while being male, that male is sinister, threatening and unsafe. Many transwomen don't use ladies toilets. A male that does is indeed sinister, threatening and unsafe.

PS: One of the posters commenting on this thread is a trans man themselves. So you obviously haven't even read the thread.

If you can provide data that genuinely proves men who claim to be women are no more likely to be violent, sexist or sexually abusive than biological women, and that men who claim to be women are not taking the place of women in sports, politics and professions, I think everyone here would be overjoyed.

I hope it's not the false and self-reported 'data' I think it is. I will know once I see it if I'm right.

What is your opinion on the case of the Darlington Nurses? Do you think they are not justified to object to sharing their changing rooms with a biological male exposing his genitals and asking the nurse why she wasn't getting changed?

😂😂😂😂 No, women here are concerned with woman’s rights and women’s freedoms, not in capitulating to men who say they are women.

Trans women all have the same playbook. You get the same old tired arguments every. Fucking. Time.

I think some trans women do care, but I think the two you're referring to in your post probably see themselves as women so they're baffled (and hurt) by other women being scared of them. I've never met a trans woman who sees herself as a man, (which makes sense if you think about it - she wouldn't be trans if she saw herself as being a man right?)

In fact @MAFSsaddict and @RFRose, I have suffered abuse directly from male people with transgender identities, am I allowed to have a single sex space that excludes people who may have been my abusers?

And yet he wouldn't be a transwoman if he weren't a man.

Which is sad for them, but nevertheless they are men

If they're baffled and hurt by women being scared of them, all they're doing is proving that they don't think like women.

@MAFSsaddict

Er, I know myself, and all the other trans people I've met in support groups...

A question, if you don't mind: how do the trans people you know react to the UKSC ruling?

I’ve always said it’s a mental health condition, nothing more.

I think some trans women do care, but I think the two you're referring to in your post probably see themselves as women so they're baffled (and hurt) by other women being scared of them. I've never met a trans woman who sees herself as a man, (which makes sense if you think about it - she wouldn't be trans if she saw herself as being a man right?)

So operating dangerous machinery while being deluded enough to think it's harmless. Sounds really safe to be around.

Let me rephrase that for you:

"So the reputation mumsnet has for stating facts, speaking the truth and not succumbing to certain mens fantasies is true then"?

Yes, yes it is.

@FlakyCritic 👏👏

Since we are in the mood to swap data, I will start.

For anyone who wants to know what should be considered for evaluating risk of this sub group of males to show that they have a risk level not less than any other male in the UK of committing sex crime, have a read through the statistics for males who have transgender identities who commit sex crimes in the UK
Firstly, This was a question answered earlier this year:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-16/20298.

Question from Rebecca Paul (MP Reigate): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, with reference to the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2023-2024, published on 28 November 2024, how many of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female were convicted of a sexual offence.

Answer from Sir Richard Dakin (MP Scunthorpe): 23 December 2024
Of the 245 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as male (i.e. those who now identify as women, non-binary or gender-fluid) on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. This includes both contact and non-contact sexual offences. Offence data was not available for 1 individual.

Of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female on 31 March 2024, the number convicted of a sexual offence is five or fewer. We do not provide exact data for such small sample sizes as it risks identification of individuals. This approach is in line with our standards on data disclosure.

To put this into perspective with what we already knew from FOI information

Here is data from the MoJ

Here is an FOI request from 30 April 2024

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/populationoftransgenderoffend/response/2641337/attach/html/7/FOI%20240322022%20Annex%20A.xlsx.html

Up to the 31st March 2023, the MoJ stated that of the 88 male transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was

48 rapes,
0 attempted rapes,
10 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
13 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
0 indecent assault or gross indecency
6 sexual activity with a child under 16
0 other

77 listed here.... BUT there is a total of 88 in the total so there is 11 crimes not noted.

Possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child has not been recorded in this FOI.

However, there is are further discrepancies in the data of the following when you look at TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE.

1 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity
3 rapes
2 sexual activity with a child under 16
3 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,

This equals 9 additional... however the sum for TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE is 99.

Therefore 2 more sex crimes have been hidden from this data.

There were 203 males who were declared as transgender in the prison at the time.

There were 24 NB who were not segregated into male and female. What is key here, is that THIS IS NON-GRC HOLDERS. And we all know that males holding GRCs have increased and they are excluded from this data. NO female people with transgender identities were sentenced to a principal sexual offence. There were 41 female people with transgender identities in UK prisons at that time.

As a comparison, I have stats that say as of April 2019 that the general male MoJ data for male sex offenders was just 16.8% of the male prison population.
And there were 3.3% of female people in UK prisons were sex offenders.

I will leave you to do your own sums. But... even using the figure of 88/203 is 43.3%. (And that doesn't include making or possessing indecent photographs of a child remember.)

By the way this exercise was done in 2021. And I checked this data myself from the data source and it was correct at the time. So, it will give some back ground to the above.

The ones that say that in the March/April 2021 data collection period, the MoJ stated that of the 97 transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
40 rapes,
8 attempted rapes,
31 possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child,
32 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
20 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
10 indecent assault or gross indecency
9 sexual activity with a child under 16
27 other

The 97 sex offender transgender prisons collected 177 sentences between them.

And that according to that FOI 197 prisoners are transgender.
This is why NO SUB GROUP OF MALE PEOPLE SHOULD BE EXEMPT FROM RISK ASSESSMENT. This group of male people still retain the same male pattern of committing sex and violent crime, at ANY STAGE OF TRANSITION.

But I am looking forward to seeing the data that shows us all exactly why a male at any stage of transition should be treated as if they are exempt from being included in safeguarding risk assessment for their sex, that should be the basis for policy decisions about who should access what spaces.

Oh good the old “you don’t know any trans ppl” - can tick that one off the list

I work with a TW who describes himself as a lesbian. It’s fucking enraging

The whole entirely of MN is a transphobic echo chamber? Really? I've been here years and I've only just found that there is a yoga section. Must admit I haven't seen any sign of transphobia there but I'll be sure to keep an eye out now...

It's nothing to do with feeling safe. If you are to have sports for women or changing facilities for women then that doesn't include men.

Or alternatively show us the receipts that shows a TRA showing empathy for women who object to sharing single sex spaces with transwomen.

I'd like to see that. I'm not sure I'll live long enough though.

Is it really transphobia? Or is that this 1% seem to believe that their rights out trump the rights of the everyday woman? Personally, I honestly think transgender don't actually like woman, I have attended womans meetings and been spat on and shouted at by men wearing dresses, and when asked the question, if you are a woman as you believe you are then why aren't you listening to what woman have to say and what they want? Their answer? They call me a Terf!

Depends. A man in sex or a man in gender? Being trans is being aware that your sex and your gender are opposite. That means you need to acknowledge your sex. Not doing so would be detrimental to one's health, both mental and physical. And when it comes to single-sex spaces, well, it's the sex that matters.