Why don't trans women care if women feel unsafe?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I listened to the Stephen Nolan show earlier on BBC Sounds. They were discussing the FA ban on male players in the female category. A lady from SEEN in Sport was on and was great.

Then there were two transwomen on (one who is involved with Mermaids). There was lots of talk about their feelings and some quite infuriating twisting of scientific fact (women come in all shapes and sizes, so transwomen have no advantage). But one thing that came up several times was how they didn't feel safe using male facilities. Stephen Nolan did the faux naive thing quite effectively and tried to turn it around to get them to consider other people's viewpoints, unsuccessfully. It was back to their feelings again. The levels of entitlement was quite astonishing.

Why don't they ever consider women who feel unsafe sharing spaces with males? Is it because these women are just bigots that need to be re-educated and reframe their trauma?

Yes, it would have been great if Su Wong from SEEN in Sport had stayed on to be able to challenge them on these points. Stephen Nolan did mention different physicality, but they then went on about reduced testosterone blah blah and it wasn't pushed further that they still retain advantage from male puberty.

Is it because these women are just bigots that need to be re-educated and reframe their trauma?

I put your question to a transwoman friend, and this was pretty well the answer he gave.

Whilst he's clearly a misogynist who lacks empathy, and might have a PD for all I know, I'm pretty sure he's not driven by a fetishistic need to dominate and frighten women. His belief that he's a woman is pseudoscientific, and he thinks we all need to get up to date and get with the programme - eventually the laughable idea that sex is fixed and binary will go the way of the dodo.

He gives himself away with his use of dishonest debating techniques, disproportionate anger towards TERFs, and an obtuse and selective lack of intellectual curiosity. From all of which I deduce that on some level - possibly inaccessible to his consciousness - he knows what he's doing.

Many of them appear to lack Theory of Mind.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind

Most men do not claim to be women, the sort of man who would, no matter how nice and reasonable and kind they appear to the outside world are the type of men who don’t really care what other people feel or how their actions affect other people.

If trans wasn’t a concept these men would find some other loophole to abuse and upset people, we’ve all met people like this who do things because ‘technically’ they can.

Because they're men. And men can't understand why women feel this way, because they are men. And as aman they are more important and more right than a mere woman.

I wonder would that man agree that if you 'educated' him for an hour or two on reality and women's experience, would he be converted entirely to be a mouthpiece for women's rights and sex based reality?

Of course not.

For 'educate' read 'programmed'. There really seems to be an issue with understanding the humanity and inner life of others.

Yes, I fear you are right sunshine, based on the rampantly transphobic echo chamber on display here.
Some commentators on this thread clearly have big issues with men too, not just trans people

Where? What transphobia?

The problem you have here is one entirely of your own making. When a phrase like transphobic is overused to this extent, it becomes so devalued that it loses all impact.

I might have cared about being accused of transphobia once, but since it has been thrown about like toxic confetti and used to close down every woman who even looks like she might be considering objecting to trans id'd men ignoring her rights, spaces, feelings, boundaries etc I no longer give even a tiny shiny shit.

Knock yourself out with your accusations and outrage, sunshine, we're totally over it.

Please do provide the evidence of sympathy, care and engagement with the needs and concerns of women? Or disprove what is being said here with actual evidence that is not just one long emotive rant about mens feelings. Demonstrate that the observed patterns of male behaviour are not as framed. Because everything said here can be evidenced. Repeatedly.

Just calling it names - we're past that. When a rape victim is told she'll lose her surgery if she won't submit to having her vagina exposed to a man she feels sexually harassed by? The time for purile name calling to try and distract from this appalling behaviour is long, long gone.

A phobia is an irrational fear of something. We aren't transphobic for not wanting males in our single sex spaces or sports

Look, let me spell it out for you.

Women on this forum have been repeatedly called transphobic for saying that humans can't change sex, for saying that we don't share any kind of gender identity with trans women, for saying that we need a word for female people which doesn't include male people, for saying that male rapists shouldn't be held in women's prisons, for saying that women should be entitled to single sex rape crisis support, for saying that women should have the right to refuse intimate care or being strip searched by a male person who identifies as a woman, for saying that women and girls should be entitled to fairness in their sports, and much more besides.

As such, being called transphobic is pretty much water off a duck's back at this point.

If believing that female people exist and have sex based rights is transphobic, then I will be transphobic every day of the week and twice on Sundays, and would question why any decent person wasn't.

So if you think calling us transphobic is going to have any impact at all, or stop us from fighting for women's rights, think again.

Although describing what you are doing as "thinking" is probably far too generous.

If you think it's 'transphobic' for women to ask why men don't care about how we feel, then that says everything about your femphobic misogynistic bigotry and need to centre males even when women are unsafe. It's a reflection on you and your callous disregard of the needs and rights of women. Not us.

I think you’re getting confused with the reputation that MN has for women supporting women*.

*For the definition of ‘women’, refer to For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers, 16th April 2025.

Some commentators on this thread clearly have big issues with men too

You are one step away in your scold on us of calling us 'misandrist' and 'men haters'. Your femphobia and misogyny isn't even being hidden at all.

I see you’ve already been told but please do try harder

Women care and know about women's rights and male behaviour patterns on a women's rights board of a women's site.

Colour me shocked. 😆 They've read books too. And helped women escape lifethreatening relationships. In many cases escaped them personally. Been in refuges, run programmes for women, been part of policy development. Know the government statistics, police inquiries, the court cases, the serious case reviews.

you could open up the echo chamber - may be you could answer the question in the OP:

Why don't they ever consider women who feel unsafe sharing spaces with males?

do you have a view on women who feel unsafe sharing changing rooms with males, even ones with feminine gender identities? what's to be done to help those women feel safe?

I'll say it one more time in small words:

The fact there are people here making truly stupid comments and not getting deleted or banned (as so far they haven't broken the posting rules that we're all held to) demonstrates this is not an echo chamber.

So that's another silly phrase being parroted without brain engaging on the way.

This. NATWALT but the activist class absolutely are.

A lot of the time they're not getting deleted or banned despite clearly breaking the Talk Guidelines because we prefer to leave their posts up as part of "Operation Let Them Speak" rather than report them.

Maybe you need to educate yourself and reframe your trauma.

thank you for coming back

why not prove the people on this thread wrong?

let's think about women who feel unsafe sharing changing rooms with men with feminine gender identities - what's to be done to help them feel safe? it's obviously important that EVERYONE feels safe, yes?

@RFRose

"bash a small and marginalised group in society"

Nope. We trans people are NOT marginalised, not in my country and certainly not in the UK.