Why don't trans women care if women feel unsafe?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I listened to the Stephen Nolan show earlier on BBC Sounds. They were discussing the FA ban on male players in the female category. A lady from SEEN in Sport was on and was great.

Then there were two transwomen on (one who is involved with Mermaids). There was lots of talk about their feelings and some quite infuriating twisting of scientific fact (women come in all shapes and sizes, so transwomen have no advantage). But one thing that came up several times was how they didn't feel safe using male facilities. Stephen Nolan did the faux naive thing quite effectively and tried to turn it around to get them to consider other people's viewpoints, unsuccessfully. It was back to their feelings again. The levels of entitlement was quite astonishing.

Why don't they ever consider women who feel unsafe sharing spaces with males? Is it because these women are just bigots that need to be re-educated and reframe their trauma?

Yeah, we've seen a lot of drive by scolds like you. Very boring.

Perhaps you should read some of the threads on this forum started by trans women. It's very illuminating.

TW: You're all horrible bigots because...
Feminists: Here is our carefully considered point of view based on our own lived experience.
TW: Me me me me me me me me what about MEEEEE.

Seriously, there are women on here who have made themselves vulnerable, opening up about their personal experience of sexual assault and rape (for example) to explain why they need single sex spaces, and met with an absolute empathy vacuum from the trans woman in question.

I say trans women rather than trans people because we have also had posts from trans men on here which couldn't have been any more different.

I’m really glad that’s your experience, but it’s certainly not what the data suggests more widely

Males are not a 'marginalised' group. Transwomen are in particular, the most powerful, privileged and protected sacred caste there is. You are taking the piss saying males - and 92% of them are intact males - are 'marginalised' just because they put on a dress.

I hope you get help to work out why you have such a femphobic and misogynistic hatred of rape survivors like me needing our hard won single sex spaces, and look deep into yourself why you are so full of hate for women and on your knees for men. Or, better still, go back to the Mens Rights/incel board you came in from.

Oh data. We love data. Let's see the data.

What data?

thanks for sticking around.

what are your thoughts on helping women who perceive men with feminine gender identities as men feel safe in women's changing rooms?

It's fair to say we have a big issue with the sort of men who would enter women's spaces.

Who are not a marginalised minority.

Since 16th April, it cannot possibly be described as transphobic to believe that, whilst trans people deserve recognition and protection from discrimination, sex-based rights can only be conferred based on birth sex.

It might be transphobic to draw negative conclusions about the motives or character of all trans people, based on what we know about a few individuals. We should try to avoid that.

Every time those phrases are weaponised against the side they came from it creates gender critical euphoria . (This is a joke for the hard of thinking readers from Reddit.)

The data proves, without a shred of all doubt - that trans are the most powerful, most privileged and most protected sacred caste there is. No other group has successfully managed to upend society, change definitions and remove all womens hard won sex-based rights and spaces. Only a misogynistic and Male Supremacist group could achieve that.

I agree that everyone feels safe and whilst I don’t personally agree with the recent ruling, my view is that single sex spaces plus a third option is likely the only way forward.
I also understand the argument about sport and women’s refuge.
I do feel though that an inclusive-first approach, whilst understanding there are genuine situations which need to be dealt with outside of this, (such as those mentioned above), is the most sensible option.

Do you know what marginalised means? It means, "to be treated as if not important". Considering the sheer amount of noise that is being made in the UK about trans people, I would argue that them being "not important" is the LAST thing you could say about them!

But by all means, show the data.

It’s not this I was referring to, more the insults and unfair generalisations

Oh, mate.

You do seem awfully confused.

Firstly, whether you agree with the Supreme Court ruling or not is really neither here nor there. It is the law. If trans people believe they need more rights than they currently have under the law then they need to campaign for those rights through democratic means, not grab them via undemocratic means.

Secondly, single sex spaces plus additional third spaces is the solution that almost everyone on here has been proposing for years. But if you go and say that on Reddit, or mention that you "understand the argument about sport and women's refuges" you'll be banned for transphobia.

Thirdly, "inclusive" of trans women in the context of single sex spaces means non inclusive of certain women. Trans women and women who need single sex spaces cannot both be accommodated in the same space. "Inclusive" just means one group's wishes trumping another group's.

It sounds like you're not actually that different to us mean old transphobic TERFs after all, and if you stick around here you might learn something.

Do you also pop onto all the message boards which are insulting women and describing them using unfair generalisations? If not why not? Do you not support all women? Or is there perhaps something different about the group of women you go to bat for.

What insults? Can you give a specific example?

Genuinely, do you think the thing that makes men and women different is that we think differently?

If not, can you please explain what is the difference between men and women? You believe trans women are women and not men presumably, so you must believe (1) there is something meaningful which is different between women and me, and (2) it's not our bodies, so what is it please?

If men stay out of women's spaces and do not require them to do things like undress to prove that they will at least pretend to believe what they are instructed to, then the 'issues' in that direction will abate immediately.

The issues more generally with misogyny, which is currently off the scale in the UK and enabling this abuse of women, and with male behaviour patterns, is the big picture in which this ideology movement has a large piece.

If you insist on your right to jump up and down on other people's feet, you can hardly be surprised when they tell you to stop. And if your answer is no, and to persist while calling them names for resisting, they are going to not unsurprisingly draw the conclusions that you are not a very pleasant person and that there is something wrong with you.

As an aside, what is it with the name "Rose" right now? Seems to be all over gender-land.

thanks for the reply

i'm curious about your inclusive first approach and talking about specifics would help me understand.

what does that mean for example in work places where there are currently male and female changing rooms and toilets only - practically what is to be done in this situation?

How about prisons and hospital wards, how does the inclusive first approach work there?

I don’t pretend to be as passionate as you clearly are on this topic but you are mistaking a reasonable approach for confused.
Well I’ve really enjoyed observing you all ‘in the wild,’ but how do I stop getting notifications now as I’m actually trying to settle my son down (genuine question!)

Great post

Even I, a trans man, couldn't say half of that to trans activists without being yelled at and labelled transphobic.

Sounds like you're just as transphobic as the rest of us...

A Darlington nurses court case reference would be my guess.

All we are saying is that trans women are men and behave like men.

"Transphobia," "bigots," "marginalised," we've heard it all before. You have no actual arguments, do you?