Why don't trans women care if women feel unsafe?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I listened to the Stephen Nolan show earlier on BBC Sounds. They were discussing the FA ban on male players in the female category. A lady from SEEN in Sport was on and was great.

Then there were two transwomen on (one who is involved with Mermaids). There was lots of talk about their feelings and some quite infuriating twisting of scientific fact (women come in all shapes and sizes, so transwomen have no advantage). But one thing that came up several times was how they didn't feel safe using male facilities. Stephen Nolan did the faux naive thing quite effectively and tried to turn it around to get them to consider other people's viewpoints, unsuccessfully. It was back to their feelings again. The levels of entitlement was quite astonishing.

Why don't they ever consider women who feel unsafe sharing spaces with males? Is it because these women are just bigots that need to be re-educated and reframe their trauma?

There’s a button at the top or the bottom of the page that says “watch this thread” - if you click it, you will stop being notified.

Now if I was a mansplainer I’d answer that. As a Rad Fem I’m going to override my social conditioning to be helpful and provide unpaid labour.

I haven’t really posted on here much, but I will have a look

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

Oh wait, it wouldn't in a lot of cases....

Thank you

Oh noes…. Are we not going to get the data?

Why do we keep getting the mantras without the back up data?

It is like the some posters believe that the readers won’t notice the unfounded assertions. But the readers do indeed notice.

Calling all trans women narcissists for a start

I can come back onto the post asap, I just need to settle my son first

and just like that dear reader, Rose was gone

looks like no one will be getting their data or their clarification of how an 'inclusive first' policy would help women who want single sex spaces

cross post rose, apologies. looking forward to hearing back from you

Men rarely care about or understand women’s fear.

I don't think anyone has said they are all narcissists. Just the ones who don't appear to have any empathy for women.

MISOGYNY.

Sorry all I need to focus on bedtime - it’s 9.30pm and my 3 year old is still not asleep. Thanks for the healthy debate and all the best!

Looking forward to it.

You know we read the data, don’t you? Many of us love to see the evidence that people find compelling. So thanks in advance.

Well if some of the non-narcissistic transwomen would like to get themselves interviewed on TV or radio, write letters to news outlets or post on mumsnet we would just love to hear from them. I won't wait up

If I provide said data, will you actually reflect on it or will I just be wasting my time?

RFRose, I am with you. The issue I have is that it’s clear not one person who is commenting knows anyone trans. The constant dehumanising of the trans community on here is brutal.
I do know transwomen and Trans men. None are the sinister stereotypes I hear on here. The ones I know have been through hell and back. Two displayed absolute determination to be the gender they felt they were from when they were toddlers. Both with loving stable families. So, definitely not influenced by others or doing for any other sinister motive. I think it’s more complicated for some, but personally I’ve never been threatened or felt unsafe around any trans women, I’ve worked with them, done courses with them, shared toilets with them, I don’t recognise any of the traits described on here. It’s my opinion based on actual real experience, there’s two sides to this discussion so please don’t get aggressive back, I am absolutely entitled to give my view. Unless this officially is a transphobic forum? In which case, where is that made obvious?

TBH I’m just terrible at choosing usernames

Of course we know trans people.

Stop being so patronising.

Why would knowing trans people make us any less likely to believe that women deserve to exist in law and have some sex based rights?

Agreed

Hang on! You think healthy debate is coming onto a social media platform and calling people bigots, transphobes and misandrists?

Well, that sounds straight out of the how to not to make friends or influence people handbook or the ‘I am unable to debate, just want to feel good about myself’ guide.

So why don’t transwomen on this program, or the many public figure transwomen, the multitudes on social media or any of the trans lobbying groups demonstrate any empathy or consideration for women who do not want or cannot have males in single sex spaces?

I promise to reflect on it

I would also ideally like you to talk in practical terms about how your inclusive first policy would work for changing rooms and toilets in workplaces, in hospital and in prisons. Thank you

It is not "reasonable" to expect women to pretend that some men are more like women than other men, it is demeaning and sexist.

It is even less reasonable to expect women to carry that pretence into pretending that these men are no different to women at all, and as part of that pretence to expect women to strip off or be touched or imprisoned with them as comfortably and unconcernedly as we would with other women, or to allow these men to define what it and is not important for women, or to speak for us "as women" politically.

You think you are "reasonable" because you are looking for a compromise where the men get some of what they are demanding. You have been fooled by these men into thinking their wants are reasonable. But if you think about what they are demanding in terms of what it means for women, all women, these are not reasonable demands. These are demands to redefine ourselves and our language and experiences into only those things that can also be achieved by men, and to take all the things that are to do with our bodies and the sexism we live within every day, things that in reality we cannot escape and pretend they are not part of being a woman at all.

A compromise that only partially gives in to unreasonable demands is not a reasonable compromise, any more than the solution to finding someone has stolen identity is to agree to share your money with them.