To be annoyed by tra hyperbole around supreme court judgment

[mids2019]

Just a bit tired of reasoned coherent argument that biological sex gives rights being met with trans people giving the impression a considered ruling clarifying existing law is somehow akin to a personal attack or the announcement of laws in 1930s Germany. So many trans people saying they are scared or fearful of 'dark days to come'.....why? It seems without counterargument tra are trying to give the vague impression of an oppressive society gradually obliterating the 'most fragile of oppressed groups'. The judgment actually reinforced general inability to discriminate for fs.

A judge has simply defined a women for the purposes of law and taken no rights away from any person but indeed reinforced existing rights for 50% of the population which was needed.

I laughed out loud when I read that boxing promoter and convicted wife beater Kellie Maloney is concerned that if he commits a crime he will be put in a man's prison and be at risk of rape and violence. Hyperbole at it's best!

Imo the ruling will lead to a further proliferation of gender neutral spaces when it comes to schools, gyms, cafes etc. I think it makes it simpler for hospitals and prisons in the first instance but it's possible they go down a 2 space route in prisons ie trans women area in a female prison and vice versa.

@urghhh47, this won't be legal in many cases. Schools and employers have to provide single sex toilets, for instance. And transwomen are already housed in the male prison estate (in the main), and will remain there.

I really can't see places spending time and resources they don't have changing male and female toilets to gender neutral. I can, sadly, foresee longer queues for disabled facilities which are by their nature gender neutral.

Seeing the levels of hatred that are being spewed now some GC women feel emboldened by the ruling leaves no doubt as to why trans people must be feeling afraid

I genuinely think there is psychological issues associated with this thought process. Sex realists, have had years of threats - many public in the form of posters, tweets and direct action, yet when they say "glad, women can be safer in loos" they are accused of terrifying trans people.

If you are a transactvist then sort out the aggression within the community and highlight the threats that have been made to women. If you highlight those then your statements will have more credibility.
JK was met with hostility/violence yet her initial statement contained no threats to trans people. She wasn't unkind, aggressive or hostile just stating the law.

You have to cleaning up your own house first before trying to impose stricter behaviours on others.

Yes, but the campaign is not over and there is still a long way to go. The ruling was radical because of its clear-sightedness and stating of facts...but trans ideology is culturally embedded in many/most organisations. The ruling actually has very deep implications for the whole trans concept has it has come to be embodied. The idea that TWAW etc. All of those mantras that were chanted; the forced use of pronouns; the false reporting of crimes as being committed by women etc The way that it has infected childhood, and the long term harm done to children....being told they could change sex, or are actually the opposite sex.

If you look at the effect that Trump's/Musk's/Vance's belligerent/wipe your face in it approach is having in the U.S, and beyond, you'll note how counterproductive it is being. All of his measures and edicts are being stifled and challenged at every turn, and the temperature has heated up even more. He's creating enemies even out of friends.

I know we're all thrilled at this ruling; I am too.....It brings such relief and validation, and also recognition of all that people have been subject to. Of the terrible behaviour; the intimidation and bullying, and the closing down of discussion, the banning ( even on here), the discipline procedures, the abandonemnt by the Labour party etc - and so of course people want to celebrate.......but there is still a need for a steely resolve and an eye on the goal.

It doesn't matter how 'they' respond. It matters more how we respond.

Kathleen Stock's letter to the times " Sir, I told you" was enough.

IT IS NOT HOW I IDENTIFY

WOMAN BORN NO PREFIX NEEDED

I will not give up my woman title to a born man and his petty handmaidens

Yes, I’m seeing a lot more cries of ‘fascist’ and the like on my Facebook, and it’s incredibly depressing to see a lot of reposting of fact-free, emotive videos from idiots in their cars. Dismissing ‘old, white’ women for taking away ‘trans rights’.

Read Maya Forstater’s update on the case from yesterday: Sex Matters on X: "Update from Maya! What an amazing day: 16th April 2025, the day women in the UK got their rights back. t.co/HqqOOvnQpd" / X

Ben Cooper was singled out by the SC for the excellence of his work. This ruling was as unequivocal as Sex Matters could have planned for. It’s watertight. And still being wilfully misunderstood by so many who can’t even see the misogyny they display alongside it.

Brendan O’Neill is blistering there and it’s fantastic someone can still see fit to lampoon it all so caustically and comedically - but it’s very obvious that a female writer would not be able to be so flippant.

So many good posts. It'll take ages for it to sink in that someone powerful has finally said no to trans activists. They've been allowed to use the most extreme tactics to reshape society for their own ends - verging at times on terrorist behaviour - and they're not going to be forced to behave like civilised adults easily.
It's going to take time, calm repetition and clear boundaries to start to put this mess right. which of course so many women are experts in having dealt with toddlers and teenagers.

Yes third spaces were 'humiliating and degrading' as were disabled toilets.

Not sue why that is OK for those of us who need the accessible toilet.

Does Ben Cooper get to quote those remarks about the standard of his work anywhere and any time he pleases ?

You can’t hope for better peer recognition than that.

My LinkedIn is interesting. The first couple of days was filled with posts from relieved women. A few were jubilant. Not a single one was anti-trans.

Today, it’s more mixed. Still no anti-trans posts, but a couple from “reasonable” male transitioners, one of whom suggested that women would be no better off, but that it would increase hatred against transistioners.

He stated that women had the right to single sex spaces in some instances and listed rape crisis, hospital wards and prisons. He said women had always had those rights.

Then there are HR types, some bewailing the awfulness for their “trans and non-binary” employees. Others are giving out misinformation and saying that trans people are now not covered by sex based rights but only gender recognition.

And a friend wrote to me, expressing the fact that she wasn’t sure where old-school transsexuals could go now and wondering how it could work.

What none of them are acknowledging, and this is the part I find most frustrating, is that the whole reason the case was brought was because transactivist organizations, right up to the Scottish Government were selling misinformation which undermined women’s rights.

Women didn’t start this battle and they are not at fault for pointing out what was happening, but there is a whole load of whining and wailing going on, which still has no acknowledgment of who it is that actually caused this problem in the first place.

I haven’t done it yet, but I really want to point out to the “reasonable” male transitioner that the whole reason the case was brought was because the Scottish Government and lower courts said specifically that women didn’t have the right ANY spaces to be single sex, ever.

This is all on them for trying to remove women’s rights, rather than work out what they really needed for safety and dignity and working towards that in a way that didn’t impinge on women.

😂. Same. It’s all just noise now.

‘Before’ it was a threat and needed to be addressed. Now, meh.

They (RTRA) lost. Fck off over there. And when they get there, fck off some more. In fact, they can fck off til they’ve done a full circle. Then fuck off some more.

More Ta Ra than TRA, I’d say.

It's going to take time, calm repetition and clear boundaries to start to put this mess right. which of course so many women are experts in having dealt with toddlers and teenagers.

😂😂❤️

What @Shortshriftandlethal said

"It doesn't matter how 'they' respond. It matters more how we respond."

We already knew what a woman was, give it some time to sink in for them and stay vigilant.

After all, they know that transwomen are not women really. It takes time to untangle that kind of thinking.

People also need 'permission' to be to express that knowledge too. Gradually people will come out of the woodwork.

Already i see people who stayed well out of the debate suggesting that 'third spaces' are the obvious solution and also saying that this is all just 'common sense'.

Agree with you OP
they can fuck right off

Halfway through…Brilliant!! 👏🏻😃

Some time back, Stephen Whittle openly discussed the strategy employed by TRAs in the 1990s and 2000s to work ‘under the radar, with policymakers, human rights bodies, and professional organisations to integrate ‘trans-inclusive’ policies without the public knowing. They knew that their progress would be hindered if those who would be impacted by the policy (the public) were consulted. They got the policy makers and organisations to focus solely on the needs/benefits of and for trans people. They dismissed the notion of objection as being like anti-gay sentiment that will disappear once people got over their fear. They thought that by the time the public or media noticed the changes, the policies would already be in place and functioning without issue, offering evidence that inclusion was not harmful.

The anger we see now is because their plan has been halted by a single ruling. They couldn’t circumvent the law, or the public forever, and they misjudged (and still don’t understand) the nature of the objections.

The progress they made with policy makers and organisations is still in play. Therefore, they are in overdrive trying to retain their ‘stealth wins’. The anger and sense of injustice is needed to try and hold as much ground as they can. I am very interested in how it will play out in the coming months….not the TRA reaction, but the organisations who were played.

thin-lipped loon India Willoughby
Ive just woken up to this thread and the Spike article is hilarious 🤣

The concept of there being different 'types' of women is inherently faulty, as well as misogynistic. A woman is an adult human female. It is a biological category, not an identity.

For those iof us who have grown up and operated within the women's movement; who have 'raised consciousness'; been involved with pregnancy; birthing; looking after small children; with the double standards applied to women; who have lived our lives in a female body and who know that experience intimately...it is just downright insulting to have such a modifier used to describe all of that.

Transwomen are men who have adopted or created a feminine persona and created an identity out of it. The sooner that is accepted as the reality, the better for everyone.

Gosh - that’s awful. I hope you reported those posts as mumsnet won’t have any of that sort of talk. Do link to those here and we can join you in reporting them.

Sorry? What? Struggling to find examples?

Why do trans women object to being called Trans Identifying Males?

two sides of the same coin - a label chosen by others and imposed on to someone else’s identity. As a group who press the issues of self and self identity - why is this difficult to understand?

One of the most awful aspects of this whole business is the number of young people who have been led down a path of radical surgeryand damaging cross sex hormone usage. They've been encouraged at every turn; had their feelings validated; and their allies have shut down and abused anyone who suggested a different narrative.

I spent years on another forum witnessing the transition of a young man - at that point about 19/20 years of age, but now in his early 30's and having had his penis surgically removed last year. He has breast implants and had other 'work' done. I've watched as other men on the forum have told him how great he looks, how if " they didn't know any better" they'd fancy him etc.

He would post updates and photos of himself ( always in the same demure pose) and seek feedback. I was shut down and threatend with being banned and had big pile ons - just for expressing my own view and experience - whilst he was given special priority and the space with which to indulge his fantasy of himself as a woman...to the extent he almost really did believe he was.

It is going to be very difficult for many of these people now to have to face a stark appointment with reality...and those around them who encouraged it all.......will most likley double down even further, because they secretly know they have some share of responsibility for this huge mess. The so called 'allies' are often the worst.

Sheila Fogarty’s LBC programmes on Thurs was interesting as she was holding the line about it not being just about safety and how females benefit simply from space away from men, and should have the right to do so. This was the point that floored callers.

The ‘bigoted’ claims mostly cluster around accusations of perceiving trans people as dangerous, deviant, and/or perverted. There is little acceptance of being able to view transwomen as kind and gentle and still not want them in our spaces, any more than wanting any other kind and gentle male acquaintances in them.

You have twisted what I say. I don’t dispute GC women have been rounded on but I don’t see it because I don’t frequent online spaces where it happens. I was talking about trans people suddenly beginning to be described as ‘disgusting’ or ‘perverts’ or ‘twisted’ or ‘rapists’ (I’ve actually seen a post on MN that says trans people are perverted rapists).

Ive never seen this level of vitriol on here before. And the fact that nobody has challenged suggests that it’s a common opinion. If such language is being used on MN, I imagine places like Twitter are a lot worse.

I find the 'if I didn't know better I'd fancy you' comment interesting

I thought men who support trans rights believe that trans women are actual women

So surely having sex with a trans woman is something they would be totally into... I mean they are women after all? Or is it that when the clothes come off and they are faced with a cock and balls or an inverted penis they come to the conclusion that a woman is more than lipstick and a dress