Is there any future you'd accept for trans people?

[AYoungTransWoman]

Hello, I'm a young trans person who transitioned in my teens. I've been on hormones my entire adult life, have a GRC and will have Gender Reassignment Surgery imminently.

Is there any future you would accept for people like me who have gone through everything?

False reality is a good description. It's like people with dementia when you have to go along with it to avoid causing them distress, but it also causes suffering to those who have to go along with it. It's quite disorientating and distressing dealing/interacting with mental illness like that.

Linky?

I wonder whether what is meant is "Again, the comparison does not make my point moot".

OP, would you consider 'Transfemale' to be acceptable on an ID card? This is the part I can never fathom, why transfemale or transmale is a space nobody wants to occupy.

Before going ahead and doing anything irreversible I would really seek some support and counselling to help you fully understand what precisely was making you feel that way through your childhood. Where was the pressure and fear coming from? Was it from someone close to you? Once you have done the work to fully understand yourself then you can move forward and establish how you can live in the most authentic way for you with or without surgery.

But at the same time as part of that you also need to come to terms with the fact that we women matter too. Our thoughts, opinions and most of all our safety matter too. If as you say you have grown up in an unhappy and fearful childhood then perhaps you can have some empathy for women who are genuinely frightened at having our safe spaces compromised by men who wish to do us harm. And that isn’t accusing the vast majority of transgender people of being abusive or dangerous it’s recognising that some men will use it as an opportunity and a method of gaining access to vulnerable women.

But "mooting" a point doesn't make sense in the context they've used it! It means putting forth an argument.

@AYoungTransWoman do you see where the unfairness is coming in with what you just said?
You couldn't bring yourself to use male spaces.
But by using female spaces, you are possibly pushing out people who have a right to be in there. You don't know their reason for not being in there with you, that's their business, but you being in there means they have lost their space, so you don't feel uncomfortable.

On top of that, if you are allowed in, as the safe human that you almost certainly are, that also means Derek the sex offender is also allowed in. Because he's got as much right as you to say he's a woman.

Are you doing anything to push for unisex spaces? As that seems to be the solution that I don't see the trans community pushing for.

As to declaring yourself male- I don't agree that you should be able to declare yourself as 'female', but I do believe that we should be adding Transwoman/ transman to certain forms, or having sex at birth and gender belief as different boxes. I care when 'gender' is the only box on these forms, not sex. I couldn't care less if you are trans, what name you want to call yourself, what you want to wear. What I do care about is the fact that I'm having to be more careful of the places I can take my young daughter, because those safe spaces are now less so, and theres more chance than ever of someone getting a kick over girls 'accidentally' seeing their penis. Again, that is not to say you do this, but because with the nice people come the others who want to take advantage.

We have been asking. I hope it is forthcoming. Because it sounds highly improbable considering what we know Mrs P.

Couldn’t bring yourself to use a male space and yet do you expect biological females to bring ourselves to share allow biological males to use a female space? I don’t care how you identify it’s none of my business but i hate the thought that we are all just expected to get on board with it and change our female spaces for you. There needs to be a solution but it shouldn’t just be the easiest option.

This is really sound advice OP.

I genuinely wish you well.

Respectfully, these are very minor fears, comparatively speaking. You’re talking about cosmetic preferences, which simply don’t approach the gravity of women’s fears at their hard-won rights to safety and equality being eroded by law. Like many women, I’ve been raped. I was nine. I’ve had a lot of therapy, and I’m a functional adult, but my need not to have men in my toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards, offering intimate care etc is just that, a need. Not just a matter of ‘I couldn’t bring myself to use a male space’.

This.
Very clearly put, and I will add:
Don't have the surgery if you are already happy as you are. Research the long term negative effects of surgery, and be very, very sure that you understand and are willing and able to deal with them.
I understand that, for some people, the surgery is necessary for their mental health. If you are one of those people, I hope it brings you what you are seeking.
Ultimately, it won't turn you into a woman. I hope you will be happy and contented to live your life as a trans woman.

Your gender dysphoria may have gone, but it’s been replaced by anxiety. You need to get that treated to go and see your GP.

OP considering your age and the fact you are a NHS patient who began hormones as a teenager I’m going to assume you have been through the Tavistock clinic at a time when it has been proven to have been unsafe.

The things you are scared of are not the things you should be concerned about.

When someone is mentally ill they typically distort reality to make it fit into something they find more comfortable, to ease cognitive dissonance if you like, for an anorexic person that cognitive distortion is around how they objectively look, they think even when they are severely underweight that they are in fact fat and the way they ease the cognitive dissonance which they find excruciatingly painful is to control their food intake. Personally I see gender dysphoria in a similar vein. The cognitive distortion is that a person is the “wrong” gender and the easing of cognitive dissonance is the gender affirming behaviours.

You might understand that in the same way that I don’t want a person with anorexia “treated” by just easing the cognitive dissonance by encouraging the “dieting” behaviour I don’t want a person with gender dysphoria treated in the same way.

I would rather that time and energy was put into correcting the cognitive distortion because ultimately I believe having a healthy personality requires that a person lives in an objective reality.

All through that recovery process I wish that the person is treated with dignity and compassion.

I would hope that trans people can be treated with the same respect and the same rights as everyone else, and to be able to go about living a life that is gender affirming for them.

I second this.

What do you mean? I used to be fine with trans people until they demanded that we change language to accommodate their feelings, until they trampled all over women, until I realised that children were at risk, until any valid concern was called transphobic, until activists try to silence and threaten detransitioners, until I realised that the movement is both misogynistic and homophobic, until I realised that gender dysphoria can come about trauma or mental illness .The list is endless.

I sincerely hope that at your young age that you find peace and I hope that one day you will not find yourself wanting to "detransition" after years of damaging hormones and brutal surgery. I hope you have looked beyond the cult and done a lot of research.

The future I want for trans people and everyone else is for them to live their life without expecting others to validate their choices.

Did you not notice the username?

You can't bring yourself to use a male space?

Even though you are a man and always will be?

For me, I'd accept whatever future you want for yourself. If you want me to accept your chosen gender, I will. If you want me to accept your GRC I will. If you want to use the women's bathroom, no problem. If you want me to support your NHS hormones, I will. TWAW as far as I'm concerned. Congratulations for how far you've come!

If TWAW why the surgery?

Being trans is not a phase. Trans people have existed throughout history in cultures all over the world. The huge backlash against trans rights is what is (hopefully) a phase.

My wish OP is that this backlash stops and you are able to live a peaceful future where you are accepted as a woman. There are lots of other women out there that feel the same as me but you won’t find them on Mumsnet.

C

I think I feel the same way as most people on here - I have no issue with you wearing what you like/presenting how you like, and wish you well in life - but I will never refer to you or think of you as a woman, and I wouldn’t accept you into sex segregated women’s spaces.
I wish everyone would accept the fact that there are two biological sexes, and that women need spaces based on that sex. How you or any other person feels about yourself is irrelevant to that.