Is there any future you'd accept for trans people?

[AYoungTransWoman]

Hello, I'm a young trans person who transitioned in my teens. I've been on hormones my entire adult life, have a GRC and will have Gender Reassignment Surgery imminently.

Is there any future you would accept for people like me who have gone through everything?

A trans woman is no closer to female than any other male, and women have no more obligation of care to trans women than they do to other men.

Honestly did you actually read my post? The original one that got quoted and misrepresented which is what I was responding to? I swear, it's impossible to have an actual conversation about this when people put words into your mouth and see things in your posts that aren't there!

I wish you happiness and that you live a life free of abuse and discrimination.
No issue at all with how you live your life, as long as that is not to the detriment of biological women’s, this includes access to female only spaces, sport/ grants/ awards ect.
best of luck in the future.

Out of all of the sexist stereotypes, I'm coming to think that women being told to Be Kind is the most damaging and undermining. What it means in practise is 'put yourself second', 'prioritise men', 'be quiet, don't make a fuss'.

Women, statistically, are not unkind. We don't murder, we're not violent, we don't rape. All of those things are things men do to us.

But we are admonished to be nice, be sweet, smile more, empathise, sacrifice, budge up, make allowances, be understanding, extend sympathy, be good.

And we are the ones chanting <Be Kind> at each other, chastising any women who step out of line. Policing each other, playing pick-me, showing each other how virtuous and good we are. Its sick when you think about it.

It's not unreasonable for someone to ask that. Especially when it comes to intimate care.

But 'frothing at the mouth''over the top' 'overreaction' are direct quotes from you, Thedownsideisup.

My DH and DS are lovely and kind and are no threat to women BUT they wouldn't ask a woman for help or go into a womens only space even so.
Men who do so are by defintion not "decent"

@AYoungTransWoman

You're probably not still reading, but if you are, my question would be this:

Think about why you have gender dysphoria. It's a symptom.

You're not happier 'as a woman'. Because you're not a woman. Therefore you're only happier presenting as a woman.

Please think about why that is. What is it enabling you to do, or be, that you can't be as a man?

And then, for the love of God, please try and understand why women aren't buying the sexism.

But you have to be honest with yourself first.

Why would he come on mumsnet full of women do you think 🥱

I think maybe we need to sort some things and accept the differences in reasons why we need the rules.
We need female only, male only and a unisex one. Unless you need to redefine the unisex ones into even more REFINED sub groups.
You need to see your needs should not be prioritised over biological females, this is the very root of the problem.

Nor should the female words , mother, midwife, breastfeeding ect. be discarded to pacify the woke agenda. That is wrong, cruel and makes a laughing stock of the people pushing the idea....

I'm not autistic but I am otherwise neurodivergent. Not all my mental health issues have disappeared, but most of them have the further I've got in my transition.

OP many of us in real life support you as a woman and would not agree with the predominant views on this thread. Wishing you all the best x

A man who has taken cross-sex homones and has had extensive surgery, inluding castration, vaginoplasty, breast implants, facial feminisation surgery etc, has not changed sex. He has just had extreme body modification so that his body appears more feminine.

The truth is that mammals (and human beings are mammals) cannot change sex. I know that this fact makes some people sad as they really want to be the opposite sex, but dreams and wishes don't make things real. It is not kind to people to tell them that they have changed sex as they will come up against reality at some point. You (meaning everyone) cannot hide from the reality of biology forever and you cannot make every member of the general public lie.

If biological reality is transphobic, then that word is utterly meaningless.

No, they are a Transwoman
And not only does nobody need to change their sex, they can't

Agree
Although we have no idea if it’s women chastising women on here with similar pro trans comments coming quickly one after another

OP, I don't involve myself in other people's sexuality so I'm unsure why you think anyone is interested . You can be however you choose and I have no interest as long as you aren't harming anyone or invading safe spaces specifically designated for others.

I don't need to hear about your preferences. I don't feel the need to discuss mine with all and sundry. It really is unnecessary. What you (or I) do in the privacy of our own homes and who we do it with is no-one else's business. It's personal and private, and best left that way.

I hope you will be very happy.

There's nothing disrespectful or disgusting for stating facts/being honest.

Fact - it is impossible to change sex
Fact - a biological male will always be a male
Fact - if a man has surgery to invert his penis and/or implant fake breasts he is still a man
Fact - if a man takes hormones he's still a man

The above are facts. Not a feeling. Not a belief. Just plain facts.

Thank you for answering. I appreciate it.

Here are some articles, I will see if I can find the bit of the transcript from the relevant court case. It could have been the Sonia Appleby tribunal case as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/02/tavistock-trust-whistleblower-david-bell-transgender-children-gids

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51806962

https://segm.org/GIDS-puberty-blockers-minors-the-times-special-report

https://www.transgendertrend.com/2017-letter-gids-clinicians-ignored-guardian/

This one has some other links

https://www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/the-times-investigation-articles-about-gids/

It was also shown to be not just the UK. In the WPATH leaked files it was also discussed and clinicians were raising the alarms. Part of the issue is that clinicians recognised that not only was homophobia involved, but that some of their patients had confused their homophobia or bisexuality as being 'transgender' or were not accepting of their sexuality.

static1.squarespace.com/static/56a45d683b0be33df885def6/t/6602fa875978a01601858171/1711471262073/WPATH+Report+and+Files111.pdf

"In fact, there are members within WPATH who acknowledge that some teenagers are mistaking their emerging homosexuality as a gender identity issue. During the panel, Massey described young patients who, after
exploring their sexuality, “got to clarify some of their gender identity issues.” "

"This is one of the many risks associated with WPATH’s approach to gender medicine. In bypassing exploratory psychotherapy, or indeed just not allowing children to grow and mature but instead immediately placing adolescents on the medical conveyor belt, WPATH-affiliated healthcare providers are inadvertently engaging in a new form of conversion therapy, sterilizing gay and lesbian teens before they have had a chance to understand and accept their sexuality. Data from gender clinics and numerous studies indicate that children and adolescents suffering from gender dysphoria are disproportionately likely to grow up to be homosexual adults, and recent studies of detransitioners likewise show
that a significant proportion are also homosexual."

I can look through those UK court transcripts, just ask.

Is there any future you would accept for people like me who have gone through everything? Who have you been listening to that you think members of Mumsnet (some of whom are firm believers that trans women are women) or even just the gender critical members, think for a second that you shouldn’t have a future? Or a future that isn’t happy and wonderful for you? Because that sort of thinking comes from TRAs and isn’t representative of the posters on here, at all. Nobody here will deny your existence or tell you that you should hide yourself away, or act a certain way or dress a certain way.

To answer your question, I wish you a very long and very happy life, full of love, people who value you and treat you well, and free of discrimination and abuse of any sort.

I also wish upon you an epiphany, where you understand that you have no right to be in female spaces and that women’s rights to these spaces is NOT discrimination against you. I wish you a future where you understand exactly how much you are forcibly taking from women; the same women who will show you kindness and compassion. I wish you the understanding that, while some women won’t ask you to leave single sex spaces because they don’t care that you are there, others won’t ask you to leave because they see your sex and are frightened of you, irrespective of your appearance. I wish you the understanding that your continued use of female sex spaces in the knowledge that women do not want to share them with you, is one of the most male things you could possibly do. And I wish you the courage to live your life as a trans woman who does not access women’s single sex spaces.

What has disappeared? Be honest.

When you say ‘trans women are women’ you are writing cheques you expect other people to cash. You can’t force us to believe what you believe.

It's not possible to change sex.

I think the problem is there are some "genuinely trans" people and then there are the people who are effectively pretending to be trans so they can beat women in sports or have access to women's only spaces so they can get access to vulnerable women. It's very difficult to tell whether people claiming to be trans genuinely are, although I would assume the ones willing to go through extremely painful surgeries are genuine. Although I am sure that there are plenty of people who are genuinely trans but prefer to keep the genitalia were born with.

Basically the people pretending to be trans are ruining it for the genuine ones.

Nope, don't need to start my own thread.

There is no special group of men that need to use female facilities to escape male violence, and using the argument that men who are pretending to be women need to use female facilities for their own protection does not hold water.

All men are at higher risk of male violence than women. But we don't let all men use the female facilities as a result. Therefore why are men who are pretending to be women given special dispensation?

Dress how you like, call yourself what you like, get help to accept your normal healthy body as it is, stay out of opposite sex spaces.