Is there any future you'd accept for trans people?

[AYoungTransWoman]

Hello, I'm a young trans person who transitioned in my teens. I've been on hormones my entire adult life, have a GRC and will have Gender Reassignment Surgery imminently.

Is there any future you would accept for people like me who have gone through everything?

Yes, indeed - freedom from the restrictive idea that being a woman is anything other than being an adult human female, that outside of biological matters, men and women can wear, behave, and feel anyway they want to feel.

I appreciate the response and repeat that I wish you well. I can't pretend that I am any further on in understanding why you feel so strongly that you are a woman.

UpsideDownChairs said that male toilets are not scary places. I suggested that they are very scary places for biological women and anyone presenting as a female. However, by her logic (ie: male toilets are not scary) then that rather flies in the face of mixed spaces being a danger.

Agreed! Some shit men are so bold as to just go in without pretending to be a transwoman. But some others are less so and use it as a way to get in and have more time before getting caught. Perverts perhaps? Not necessarily someone who would attack a woman.

It’s just not that simple is it? Most women here are just saying no and I understand their concerns but they don’t seem to be considering what a transwoman’s concerns would be. Hence unisex bathrooms! That’s not to say we should only have unisex bathrooms. Women only bathrooms should still exist.

To the people who are asking why a transwoman might feel unsafe in a men’s bathroom. My husband is a man but even he has expressed concern about his encounters from time to time in the men’s bathroom. He’s on the short side and is generally not at all a blokey bloke and it’s obvious. For a transwoman, that would be worse. Nothing will probably happen but the uncomfortableness can be real and it only takes one (drunken) asshole for it to be just being uncomfortable to being beaten up. Just think of it from their point of view no?

You’ll be waiting a long time for it to be pointed out to you.

For those trying to claim this board is an 'echo chamber' - the majority of people in the UK agree with the women on this board:

On treating gender-divergent children:

'When it comes to treatments for under-16s, 75% say puberty blockers should not be allowed, with 78% saying the same of hormone treatments.'
...

On males accessing women's spaces:

'For transgender women, resistance to allowing toilet and changing room access increases to 55% and 58%, respectively. Additionally, 52% of Britons say trans women should not be allowed to use women’s refuges for victims of rape or assault.
Such opposition increases further in our follow-up questions asking specifically about transgender people who had not undergone gender reassignment surgery.
In terms of the wider principle, most Britons (55%) say they believe that allowing transgender women to use spaces reserved for women, such as women's toilets or changing rooms, “presents a genuine risk of harm to women”.'

On males taking part in women's sport:

'Most Britons are again opposed to allowing transgender people to take part in gendered sporting events, and transgender women in particular. While 60% say trans men should not be allowed in men’s sports events, this rises to 74% for trans women at women’s competitions.'

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51545-where-does-the-british-public-stand-on-transgender-rights-in-202425

What is it about the words "For me" that you are struggling with? It couldn't be clearer that the poster is only talking about her own views.

Never really known what caused my dysphoria as I've never known life without it

I'd have liked it if you could have explored this with a therapist who wasn't petrified of losing their licence well before the drugs that will result in your sterilisation. And certainly before you have your genitals removed and inverted. It would quite a sensible thing to explore I'd have thought.

'L with the T here'

If you are an L who dates males then you are a B at best, and an S if you exclusively date males.

this is terf island HQ

Thank fuck for that. I was worried I was in a distant satellite office.

But, I don't care how men feel about going in the men's toilets. Why is that my problem?

Regarding regret rates. I willing to believe the adult men, like the OP have very few regrets. They get to live out their sexual fantasies and make everyone join in.

I bet they are getting a kick out of this thread.

The girls who transition on the other hand?

@AYoungTransWoman - I want a future where biological women have the right to:

• meet without biological men present.
• play sports against other biological women.
• single sex changing rooms, prison cells, hospital wards.
• to choose, as lesbians, to date only other biological women.
• keep their own words - woman, breastfeeding, mother.

I want a future where no-one is constrained by outmoded and outdated stereotypes of what constitutes masculinity and femininity - a boy/man who likes pink, dolls, make up, skirts, dresses can be a male person who likes those things - it doesn’t have to mean they are ‘born in the wrong body’.

I want a world where school officials do not try to force girls to get changed in front of a male individual who says they are transgender.

I want people to stop saying that it is possible for human beings to change sex - because it is simply not true. If someone, like yourself, wants to have surgery and take hormones to give the appearance of the opposite sex, that is your right, but no-one should be telling anyone that humans can change sex.

I want a world where girls and women can be whatever they want, wear whatever they want, follow whatever career or hobbies they want without that being used to label them. I believe a woman is someone with a biologically female body, and any character, not one with a ‘feminine’ character and any sexed body.

I want a world where there are third spaces for transgender people in sports, toilets, changing rooms, prisons etc, and where biological men accept that a lot of women do not want them in our single SEX spaces. Women’s safety and dignity cannot be an acceptable sacrifice to the feelings of trans people.

why should TW concerns be women’s problems to solve?

But are those three areas the limit of the beliefs of the women on this board?

@AYoungTransWoman hello pal, I’ve not had time to read through the thread but hello to you. Im sorry this is very long and quite rushed, I’ve tried to read through it but haven’t had the chance so please forgive any errors, I’ve got a bit on today so I’ve done my best!

I have trans women friends, much older than you and they transitioned in their 30s/40s, but prior one friend would wear my dresses from when we were wee kids, the other friend dressed secretly in womens clothes and came out as trans once her parents passed away and was able to without the fear of parental rejection.

I hope for you that you’re shown respect and kindness, I hope that you’re never subjected to cruelty and I hope you’re never belittled. I hope society can evolve with the trans community. We shouldn’t have women fearing using bathrooms or changing areas due to them being used by non biological women, nor do I believe you, my friends or anyone else should be forced to use bathrooms or changing areas that makes them uncomfortable. I hope trans sports people can be celebrated in categories that specifically can not ruin sport for women who are competitive athletes, because I think that is causing huge damage to the trans community. I hope we find solutions to benefit all. Not at the expense of anybody, just creating more safer and welcoming spaces without it being the detriment to anyone else.

I hope for the trans community that being a trans person is enough, you or my friends or anyone else doesn’t need to be a biological woman, or man, let’s accept that and embrace the person you are, being a trans person is an amazing accomplishment, being apart of a small and vulnerable community that has existed for many many years, to be authentically yourself despite the rise in hate crimes etc is something genuinely brave. Even if not everyone sees it. You can’t be a biological woman a male or vice versa and that’s absolutely fine, your experiences aren’t the same as mine, you’re still worthy of respect and safety and to be proud in yourself as an individual.

But I hope for trans people more than anything they don’t ally themselves with people who groom or abuse children. I want them to be fussier with who they welcome into their community. My friend who I mentioned earlier welcomed a newly trans woman (I am sceptical this person is someone struggling with identity and is instead just a filthy man trying to hide his past to be honest) into her friendships group to discover this person was a child abuser. Unfortunately I hear lots of similar stories. I believe not vetting people, especially the new wave of men who just one day went from Alan to Jenny and wearing a dress is hugely detrimental to the trans community. I understand this may be controversial to say, but welcoming anyone into your circle just on the basis of a shared journey concerns me, especially when the trans community has attracted a lot of bad men who are a risk to women and children. It would be disingenuous of me to pretend these people don’t exist and pose a risk. I hope the trans community choose ally’s more wisely.

I hope people one day feel comfortable to dress/behave exactly how they wish without feeling they need surgery and meds for life. I fully believe my trans women friends would have had much easier lives had they felt they could dress how they liked, wear make up and have nails done and weren’t made to feel like freak shows, or were able to be part of predominantly female based friendship groups and not made to feel “odd one out”, I say this because one friend’s surgery left her very unwell for a long time.

I think trans people have always existed in the sense people have been miserable living as their born sex and never felt that was who they truly are, I hope those people are able to start living happier lives without hate.
I also think there is also people out there claiming that’s how they feel when they’re just predatory or even attention seeking in nature and I hope they can become less involved as society learns more about trans folks and we can also spot the wronguns using the trans umbrella for personal and nefarious gain.

I mostly wish for you the same as I wish for every single person on the planet, you cause no harm, nor do you suffer it.

Thank fuck for that. I was worried I was in a distant satellite office.

😂

Branch office, here.

Please,please dont have gender reasignment surgery it is brutal and leads to lifelong complications.If you have been on hormones for years your penis will have shrunk and the surgeon will have to use part of your colon for an approximation of a vagina,which leads to constant infections.I can garantee you will regret it.Please do lots of research by de-transitioners their stories are horrific.I feel for you i really do,but mutilation is not the way forward for you..

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean?

It occurred to me that the trans agenda bears a lot of similarities to Wilfred Owen's poem, Dulce et decorum est. Just sub out dying for your country for 'you can change sex'

My friend, you would not tell with high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory
The old lie: dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

You mean towards male people? It's not about 'trans people'. It's about males. It's the neverending battle of the sexes. However some people think re-naming males as 'trans people' can muddy the waters enough for them to change the narrative. They are wrong. Anyone who has paid any attention knows the was never about 'trans people' but males and males finding a loophole to strip away every female right and space we've ever had. And they've managed to fool many people with the re-branding of males as 'trans'. Including yourself.

That's a nice, thoughtful post. I agree with most of it.

This bit, though:

'I also think there is also people out there claiming that’s how they feel when they’re just predatory or even attention seeking in nature and I hope they can become less involved as society learns more about trans folks and we can also spot the wronguns using the trans umbrella for personal and nefarious gain.'

I mean, how? How can we tell? There is no way to tell!

Have whatever cosmetic surgery and take whatever drugs you want. You can’t change sex. Accept that women’s single sex spaces are important. Accept that sex based medical language to describe women is important. Accept that being gay or lesbian is same sex attraction. Accept those and I couldn’t care less what you do to yourself.

The future I would wish for you is one of safety and happiness in your life as a transwoman. But that you are able to recognise and accept that there are differences between being a transwoman and being a women, and that sometimes those differences will matter, and may impact your ability to do some things you would prefer to do. That you will find a way to respect and be at peace with that, and not believe it to be rooted in hatred and bigotry and so become alienated from people who could be on your side.
I hope the world continues to allow you to wear what you like, behave in ways that are stereotypically associated by some as being 'feminine', and use your name of choice, and that the law protects your right to do that safely.
I hope that any medical care you recieve is provided by practitioners led by clinical expertise, not politics or fear. I hope that any official processes are conducted in a way that does not embarrass or distress you, while still retaining their integrity, facts and accuracy when it matters.
I hope the backlash resulting from the aggressive and unreasonable behaviour of activists doesn't harm you, and that you don't end up less safe and with fewer rights than you had before they started.

Nobody cares, as long as you keep to male single sex space.
This is the problem… wanting to be the main character when nobody else is interested.
i wish you the ability to feel acceptable as who you are without the need for external validation.

I wish you luck with a bloody atrocious surgery and hope you have excellent support for your mental health issues so you find peace eventually.

Who said I was deciding who is and who isn’t? I’m talking about men who are pretending to be a transwoman when they are just a man presenting as a woman and saying they are a transwoman so that they can deceive people but don’t actually believe or feel like they are a woman. Appearance wise, we can’t tell the difference which is why it’s a problem.