Is there any future you'd accept for trans people?

[AYoungTransWoman]

Hello, I'm a young trans person who transitioned in my teens. I've been on hormones my entire adult life, have a GRC and will have Gender Reassignment Surgery imminently.

Is there any future you would accept for people like me who have gone through everything?

The poster states ‘if you want to use the bathroom no problem’. You don’t get to blanket state it’s no problem regardless of a ‘for me’ chucked in, which I took to be referring to accepting the OP in their ‘chosen gender’, whatever that means as no one can ever properly define this without relying on regressive stereotypes.

Males using the female bathroom is a problem for many.

a person 'presenting as female' but who is male, is still male.

Are you suggesting that a grown man presenting as a woman is more vulnerable than a 10 year old child?

My 10 year old has long hair - he often gets assumed to be a girl actually, that didn't make him any less or more nervous about going in the mens than his brother who prefers short hair - because it's him that's feeling the nerves, not the other males in the toilets.

Going in somewhere alone for the first time when you feel vulnerable might be scary for you personally - doesn't actually make it a scary or dangerous place. I would hope that men aren't the threat in mens toilets that they are portrayed to be, because again, my 10 year old is going in them alone.

Men who come in the women's on the other hand, are already violating a boundary, and therefore are absolutely men to be wary of.

I indeed understand biology well. I also understand that some people might want to transition just to get access to women's only spaces. I just feel that there are very few who would take that as far as having gender reassigning surgery.

But I also wonder how this could ever be policed. I could go into a women's bathroom and who would know whether I have a penis or not? Despite what some people think, I know some individuals born female who look very masculine and you could quite easily believe they were trans (they aren't). I also know some people who were born male who, had they not told me this, I'd never have guessed in a million years they weren't born female.

I really don't think that the individuals who look absolutely female, and have had full surgery, are the ones we need to be focusing our energy on

Why don't they ever think about it from OUR point of view? Why are females always asked to think of the males, and never the other way around? Male on male violence in a female space is not our problem to solve. Females are not human shields for males in a dress. As the oppressed sex class, women should not need to 'consider it from the oppressor's point of view'. You are basically asking hens to feel sorry for the fox who is being picked on and for hens to consider the fox's needs. No thank you! Again we are not human shields for males - any males. It's not our responsibility to consider it from the oppressor's and dangerous sex's point of view.
It's THEIR responsibility to consider it from the female point of view. Not the other way around. Please do not gaslight females, ask the males to consider it from the female point of view instead. Male on male violence is not our concern or responsibility and how dare you gaslight us to think we should consider them, instead of the other way around.

Lovely words ❤️

Women are not your human shields, we would like to deal with our intimate business out of the presence of men. That includes vulnerable men, men who are trans, gay men, unblokey men, nice men, your husband, your neighbour Nigel who helps you with the bins, that nice fella from the corner shop. All of them.

Men, sort your own shit out. Fundraise for better safety measures and third spaces (which plenty of trans people won't use because it doesn't validate them). Campaign to raise awareness of male-on-male violence. Build refuges for victims. Run for political office. Basically, all the things women have had to do .

That's my point. Men's toilets are scary places for any vulnerable group. It was UpsideDownChairs that suggested they were not scary places. I was, in fact, challenging her logic.

But then you're basing it on beauty standards and Instagram filters and isn't that discriminatory?

All men, no matter how 'pretty' they may present, should be in female spaces. Not a single one

I’m talking about men who present themselves as transwomen knowing full well they are not and do not have the feelings or needs of a genuine transwoman. Men who are being dishonest.

Regardless of how much or how little they have changed their appearance (apparent or not), if they genuinely are transwomen, then I accept that. It’s the pervs who use the typical appearance of a transwoman to their advantage to get whatever horrible thing they want that are the problem.

"Most women here are just saying no and I understand their concerns but they don’t seem to be considering what a transwoman’s concerns would be"

Why should women be the ones to find a solution for male people though?

"To the people who are asking why a transwoman might feel unsafe in a men’s bathroom."

People are asking why should one group of male people be treated differently to the other groups of vulnerable male people.

Ah the no true scotsman fallacy.

And just how do we tell a genuine transwoman from one who is not?

OP the future I hope for you doesn’t include fertility-ending surgery, lifelong care of an open wound, incontinence, anorgasmia, early dementia or early death. I’m concerned you are opting for those things instead of working with a therapist to come to terms with your body and how you feel.

I’m concerned that you’re rather muddled. You can’t articulate why you believe you feel like a woman and that it’s wrong to be in a male body. If you can’t articulate why, how do you know what you’re feeling? And how do you know you feel like a woman? What does feeling like a woman mean? I’m a 50 year old woman and I don’t have a clue, I only know how I feel. So how could you, a male, be so sure you know that?

Have you had therapy? By which I mean proper, exploratory therapy, rather than just affirmation?

I strongly recommend you look to explore all psychological avenues to feeling better before you go down a path of painful, disfiguring surgery that will lead to serious health issues.

As ever, the insults tend to come from the TWAW faction. Cries of ‘terf’ ‘terf island’ ‘echo chamber’- all the usual tropes. Have we had ‘bigot’ yet?
The replies from “regulars” have, in the main, been ‘kind’. We’re not nasty, evil, rights-hoarding dinosaurs. Speaking of rights- what rights don’t transpeople have already?
You people who are happy to have men identifying as transwomen in your spaces do not get to create a mandate (ha ‘man’date oh the irony) for the rest of us.
You do not speak on behalf of me.
Or my female relatives and friends
As for men being able to storm in ladies loos etc - sorry, tired of this carp old trope too.
OP I wish you well, but think hard please.
I have a transperson in my life and while they look happier and say they are happy, life isn’t all plain sailing for them.

I wish you a future in which you don't let the opinions of a few pathologically militant women on Mumsnet feed your fear of not being allowed hormones and a female identity.

I spend so much time on here that I'm almost immune to the judgment and criticism (about all sorts of things) but it still seeps into your very soul and makes you feel that people are unkind. People in real life are just getting on with their lives and they're not obsessed with trans people.

OK.

As you can probably see, I am really trying to find out why there is this dissonance when people make the point that some male people need to be given special privileges that are not available to other male people who need them too. It seems to be a common statement but no one seems to be either able to evidence it or to explain the logic.

It doesn't matter how well a man is able to disguise himself as female; he should still not use women's spaces. It's also unfair to suggest that being 'genuinely' trans is anything to do with looking convincingly like a woman.

Men need to stay out of women's spaces, whether they've had surgery, or look convincingly 'feminine', or have good or bad intentions.

Being female is not a competition that men can do well or badly in. They just aren't.

We are unkind to advocate for women and girls?

Yes, even calling it a neo-vagina is misleading. It is essentially a lined wound that is used as a fuck hole and needs to be dilated to keep it open. There is no cervix, womb or any female reproductive organs, it will not stretch to allow the birth of a baby. Maybe this is the one time that the horrible term 'bonus hole' isn't incorrect?

I personally think people who advocate for men to have their penises removed are sick in the head.

, I know some individuals born female who look very masculine and you could quite easily believe they were trans (they aren't). I also know some people who were born male who, had they not told me this, I'd never have guessed in a million years they weren't born female.

Never in a million years will I believe this, Trans people DO NOT PASS IRL.
Some (very few) Transmen might pass without closer inspection but Transmen and women still look and move like the sex they were born into.

It does matter what OP is doing.

If children are taught that some men are actually women, they believe it. It means that children assume sex change is possible and think they need drugs and surgery to "cure" themselves. Vulnerable children believe this rubbish and are harming themselves.

The OP explanation of his feeling are inarticulately, but still embraced by some. It shows that children and young adults dont need to have any really understanding of what they mean when they say they are trans or demonstrate any understanding of the process they are getting involved with.

Also, when children are told that the man they see is actually a woman, they do not know to raise the alarm when men are in women and girls spaces. Girls will be exposed to voyeurism, flashing and worse.

It’s the pervs who use the typical appearance of a transwoman to their advantage to get whatever horrible thing they want that are the problem.

@SevenCat

How do you know the pervs aren't really transwomen? Are there really no transwomen who want 'horrible things'?

I never said I didn’t understand why women are concerned having a transwoman in a women’s bathroom. I said I would be ok with it. Hence why I said a third unisex bathroom solution. If I was being blasé about women’s concerns, then I would have said let them all into the women’s bathroom. My point is that many don’t seem to be considering a transwoman’s concerns of using a men’s bathroom.

Do I give mental space to the concerns of a man using a mens toilet?
No I do not
And if that means I am not #bekind then thats fine by me

But why is male fear of other males our issue?