Is there any future you'd accept for trans people?

[AYoungTransWoman]

Hello, I'm a young trans person who transitioned in my teens. I've been on hormones my entire adult life, have a GRC and will have Gender Reassignment Surgery imminently.

Is there any future you would accept for people like me who have gone through everything?

I accept trans gender even if you want to use female toilets as they are cubicles so no need to even know. Changing rooms are slightly different but if they have cubicles then ditto. You just need to realise that not all people are able to accept that. Be careful and understanding. To be honest I have more problems with gender fluid than trans. How can you not know what gender you want to be I cant accept that someone can be a different gender when they feel like it. Or even be no specific gender at all.

Do you understand why biological women and girls
are quite rightly not comfortable with AMAB people in their private spaces?

Me three x

As someone who had an eating disorder I understand gender dysphoria.

i understand what it is like to look in the mirror and be disgusted by what you see, to loathe yourself in a way that is all consuming, to literally want to hack bits of your body away, to be prepared to risk your life to feel better.

as the mother of sons (and daughters) who are embarking on adulthood, building relationships, both romantic and sexual, who are finding themselves and navigating a world that is both more complex and challenging than the one I grew up in my heart breaks for young adults like you who are being sold a lie, who are told they can change sex, that they’ll feel better, that their pain will subside.

taking your sexual function & your health is criminal. Making you a life long pharma patient is horrific. That there are people that will do this to vulnerable young people revolts me.

so I wants future where you are happy and healthy, where you wear what you want, love who you want and call yourself what you want. Not a future of pain, suffering and unhappiness.

And who are the 'haters'?

Women who state that they do not accept that some male people are in any way a female person?

People who don't wish to comply to language that another person demands but that the non-compliant person doesn't agree with because they simply don't hold the same philosophical belief?

I look forward to seeing who these haters are in your opinion.

I see no hate here, just women wishing OP well while also asserting their bundaries around women only spaces
Doesn't make for great screenshots for Reddit or similar though does it?

I echo other posters and say I only wish you peace of mind and happiness for the future. I hope you get the right support from honest professionals and friends rather than activists and ideologues.

No obligation to answer but I am always curious to try to understand what makes you think you are a woman and thus share any affinity with me, or any other woman posting here. Do you have any insight at all into what it might be like to live life as female from conception?

There is more than one way to sexually abuse and harass a female person than using a penis.

And the harm to female people is far wider than just a male using their penis to harm them. Harm also includes a female person having to self exclude because they know a male person uses that space. And it is highly likely that a female person can correctly sex a male person.

So, no male person should be in a female single sex space even if they have had surgery.

Besides which, how is it that women and girls are supposed to know which male people have had surgery and which haven't?

There is no backlash, most women understand the material reality of being women and understand that men can’t become women, and it is to our detriment to pretend that they can. Affirming someone’s factually incorrect beliefs about their sex is damaging to them and to women and girls in general.
The earth isn’t flat and people can’t change sex, they are both irrefutable facts.

"Of all the forums in all the towns in all the world, he walks into mumsnet FWR."

Maybe "Faux Female" like with fake fur coats...

Unfortunately you are getting advice/opinions from people who don't understand you. Most people have no idea what you have been through and think that you have a choice in who you identify as whereas you may think you have no choice, you I presume believe you are a female who was born in the wrong body? Also of course you are scared with everything that is going on in America. The world is a scary place for minority groups at the moment. I don't know much about transgender but I wish you acceptance and happiness in your future. I also completely understand why you would be scared to use male spaces but I also understand some women's fear that some men are identifying as women for underhand reasons. I think some people are scared that it is a 'trend' something their children or grandchildren might just decide to do. Some people get fed up with the idea of 'they' instead of 'he' 'she'. It is complex and with every generation people should have a better understanding. I hope you have a good support network and people in your life who accept and understand you. Best of luck to you.

How do you know this male born person isn’t a danger to you? You don’t even know them yet you’ve already deemed them not to be a threat, based solely on the fact they are trans? That’s wild.

A male presence in a female designated space IS harmful to some women.

@Readmorebooks40its perfectly possible to fully understand and simply not share the same belief system. And therefore not agree that gender identity is more relevant than a person’s immutable sex.

I'm afraid that if your DNA is that of a male, you can never acquire female DNA no matter how many surgeries you have. And most trans women end up looking like a man pretending to be a woman. I am female, and wear jeans/jumper, no makeup most of the time and only light makeup if I go out for the evening - not dresses, heels, full face makeup etc. And usually a trans woman will have large hands and feet, an Adams apple and a face that is clearly male. I'm sorry this sounds harsh but I don't know what the answer is. But undergoing painful and expensive surgery isn't going to get you what you want, OP.

Then I think many of us would support you. Third spaces to make you feel comfortable while still allowing women to have our safe spaces. And an acknowledgement that you're a transwoman/transfemale, rather than a woman.

I think you deserve to live in a way that makes you feel comfortable and safe, as long as it doesn't take away women's rights to live in a way that makes us feel comfortable and safe.

@mswales @MiserableMrsMopp @Didshejustsaythatoutloud
Im really curious - does your support have any boundaries at all? How do you deal with the concept of bad actors misusing trans rights to single sex spaces? Are you three some of the lucky women who have never been sexually assaulted?

I have so many questions for you?! Genuinely curious because having been assaulted as a child the idea of men in single sex spaces is terrifying to me

There are two questions that never get answered despite me asking again and again.

The first is, what exactly is the difference between a male who has had their penis and testicles removed due to injury or disease and a male person who elects to have them removed for their identity?

Not that this should ever be an expectation for a male person to be able to fulfill a brutal requirement to get access to female single sex spaces.

The second is, where is the evidence that a group of male people at any stage of transition has statistically the same risk of committing sex related crime as a female person or lower risk?

The reason for asking this is because to get access to single sex spaces for female people, it would be an expectation that the group in question would have the same or less risk than female people.

No one answers these questions. They deflect and obfuscate.

If you have that evidence, please post it. If you don't have evidence, please explain why society should be acting as if this falsehood was true. The falsehood being that a male at any stage of transition has the same risk or lower than a female person of committing a sex crime.

But there is another question as well.

How many female people of any age are acceptable to be harmed before sex is again prioritised above gender identity ?

@AYoungTransWoman How do YOU feel about women who want born female only spaces?

Maybe .... maybe

There is no such thing as the wrong body it's yours, the only one you have.

Otherwise I'd have Cindy Crawford's. Or Rihanna's.

The BBC had an article a few years ago. It was not about surgery but they were saying that hundreds of trans people in the UK had stopped taking their hormones and transitioned back as they had realised it was the wrong decision. Of course Stonewall protested and said that the article was not helpful.

I have name changed for this because it’s embarrassing. I’m an older woman experiencing continence problems because of an incurable disease. It’s miserable and stressful, and no way to live if you don’t have to. If a surgeon had done this to me I would be horribly bitter and angry and would never forgive them.

I think that when you’re young and healthy you can’t fully imagine what it’s like to not have a healthy body where everything works. I can confirm it takes over everything and it makes all your previous worries about what your body looks like, suddenly seem like nothing in comparison. So as someone living with this condition I would advise you to be very very wary about surgery that could muck up your ability to control when you pee and would be completely irreversible.

I’m also sceptical of transitioning gender. I don’t understand why a person can’t live as they want to live and present as they want to present themselves, in the body they were born with. It seems like a step backwards into a world of more restrictive gender roles, which seems sad to me.

This came up in a witness statement in Sandie Peggie’s tribunal. Google Maya’s witness statement- it’s on the sex matters website. Castrated males who went through male puberty retain a male offending profile

Cue a vague reference to hijra, ladyboys and some other generalised cultural appropriation of a third sex to make it fit with modern-day Western ideas of "transgender"...