Trump re trans issues / Tate brothers

[Mittens67]

I have read many threads both before and after the US election where posters are so pleased that Trump does not support the trans agenda. Some also saying that this was the most important issue which would and did influence their vote in the UK election.
Do you still feel the same now? Trump has shown his contempt for women throughout his life and career. Now he has bullied Romania into lifting the travel ban on the Tates and flown them into Florida ready to abuse more women and radicalise a new generation of misogynists and rapists.
Any buyer’s remorse?

At least he makes the trains run on time trans people afraid?
Any "feminist" supporting known sexual abuser "grab 'em by the pussy" Donald Trump for his opinion on any other issue needs to get their brain checked for worms.

It's not about making 'trans people' afraid. 🙄
Why is it every time there is something about womens rights, people need to frame it as 'anti-trans'. Almost like they know that they can't say it's about men being afraid. And they are admitting the opposite of 'trans rights' is womens rights.

Or...any woman who supports rapists being housed in women's prisons or boys taking girls' academic scholarships or just the general erasure of women and girls as a discrete class of human and who supports the Democrats on any other issue needs to get her brain checked for worms?

Not that simple.

I know that women who opposed GII but voted Democrat were faced with a hard choice and I don't judge them.

It is healthy for people to be able to discuss where political parties are wrong and where they are making good decisions. It is concerning when a good decision cannot be viewed and discussed positively without this facile generalisation that those who support the good decision must then accept they are aligned with the ‘bad’. And that anyone commenting on that good decision must have to publicly denounce the other actions.

It seems that we now have to have a disclaimer as a footnote on our posts that states that we denounce a democratically elected leader of a country we do not have any connection to. Sounds performative virtue signalling to me.

…there are even bigger issues facing humanity as a whole and also particular to women as a group.

Pretty hard to support and protect women as a group if we can’t even define who women are! Many of the problems women have are related to or caused by men. Allowing men to identify into the group Women is letting foxes into the hen house and making all discussions about women pointless - because women now includes men.

Your point is daft. Trump is a loose cannon but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong about gender ideology. That’s like saying that everybody who’s a vegetarian must think that Hitler, a vegetarian, was right in everything he did. Just stupid.

So, we are allowed to support the Republican party’s decisions to write the EOs that supported the prioritisation of sex over gender and nothing else for the next 4 years?

I don’t want anyone to be ‘afraid’ I just don’t want men, however they identify, in single sex spaces, women’s sports, prisons or rape crisis centres. I don’t want children and young people being medically butchered in the name of a ridiculous ideology, that we now know beyond any reasonable doubt is harmful and not based on fact.

No one is born in the wrong body, no one can change their sex, trans women are men and trans men are women.

What are they being made 'afraid'of?
Their safety sharing personal spaces with other males?
Afraid they are 'being denied health care'?
Afraid of no longer having the POWER to denounce and destroy people's lives with the magic phrase.. SHE'S TRANSPHOBIC!!!

Only if we want to be consigned to the fiery pit of hell as the heretics that we are 😂

Again, the ONLY reason Trump & co are able to use Genderism as a wedge issue is because their opponents will not allow debate and dissent within their ranks on the topic. Literally all the Dems needed to do to utterly defuse Trump on this was to say something like "trans people's identities are valid but physical sex also has consequences and people with female bodies also face abuse, discrimination and marginalisation. We need to be open and fair to both groups and we will not shy away from that conversation, even if sometimes that means not treating trans women as women".

Yes Breathe. Statements like …”there are even bigger issues facing humanity as a whole and also particular to women as a group”, are about shaping where women should be focusing their attentions according that that person’s priorities via shame. It is all about emotional manipulation.

And when people pushback on that emotional manipulation, more comes in the shape of ‘well obviously I am not welcome to this discussion’. Completely avoiding the manipulative nature of the first interaction and that statement.

We see it regularly across social media though. It is not a mumsnet special.

Yes. Flirts And that lack of discussion in the Democratic Party is the result of … the decisions made by the leadership team of the party.

It is remarkable to be told that the discussion of the failures of the party is equivalent to an abuser’s actions.

Of course, no one is saying that all Democrats support gender identity being prioritised above sex when sex matters. But it is pointing out that the current policies created by the Biden and Harris leadership teams had significant issues and no discussion was allowed to be had.

It's not just that. Many are genuinely afraid.

You see it online all the time. Talking each other into terror and paranoia of boogeyman they have created for themselves by telling each other that anyone who disagrees with their self identified, contradictory and dictatorial ideas about gender literally hates them and wants them to die.

It scares me because it's exactly this type of terrified hate that leads people to violent attacks on those they cast as their oppressors because they believe it is necessary pre emptive self defence against an inevitable attack.

They are being made "afraid" by their own rhetoric. It's fucking tragic.

This is a long thread already but

As regards being left or right or wing, trump is neither. He is a sub species. He is trump wing.
Is this on a par with rapist gender? Is this Nicola posting and is trying to regain some relevance?

I have no buyers remorse because Trump is nothing to do with me. I am not important enough to influence him and I cannot vote in his country.

Afraid of what though? What are trans people being made 'afraid of'?

Yes. Its surprisingly short sighted.

Suggesting that Trump's election is purely the fault of Republicans, for example, ignoring floating voters, switching Dems, and everyone who felt unable to vote for the Dems.

This is an inability to see things from any other point of view, and very black and white thinking, and self rightousness.

People want to believe that Trump is unmitigatedly evil and that everyone who voted for him is the same. It may seem simplistically easy to think that way, but also must be bewildering and white alarming to think that so many people are evil.

At some point it would make sense to consider the reasons Trump was elected, using ideas more complex and nuanced than 'good' and 'evil'.

And anyone who thinks UK feminists have much of a bearing on the election of the US president and deserve to be berated for Trump's election is apparently subject to some very strange thought processes. I suppose it could be a 'shoot the messenger' thing.

FWIW if the UK government fail to address some of these similar issues, they will be 100% weaponised and used by Reform.

That's my Mystic Meg prediction - and for the avoidance of doubt for the hard of thinking does not mean I support Reform.

We saw gender issues have a serious impact on Sturgeon, and theyre doing the same for Swinney. I'd say it's a symptom rather than the cause tbh, but they do act as a useful indicator.

To assume that supporting trans access to all female things is universally a right wing opinion means you have spent too long immersed in tribal, US politics.

You should look at immigration, there are socialist countries where the anti immigration sentiment comes from the left, as they feel they have paid so much into a system that others shouldn't be able to just come in and take it. The left/right is not as defined as you are assuming.

Most people here know that the sexist " women should have a certain personality and are lesser than men," is actually the flip side of "if you have this personality, you are a woman and can get off on how submissive that makes you," not the opposite or either being more progressive. Both are horrible, sexist viewpoints but we can at least breathe a little easier if they start cancelling each other out.

@Helleofabore

It is remarkable to be told that the discussion of the failures of the party is equivalent to an abuser’s actions.

Of course, no one is saying that all Democrats support gender identity being prioritised above sex when sex matters. But it is pointing out that the current policies created by the Biden and Harris leadership teams had significant issues and no discussion was allowed to be had.

It is remarkable how you manage to twist the meaning of words into something else. I was commenting on the similarity of the frequent (so frequent now it's almost a trope) remark of "It's the Democrats' fault Trump was elected" and the words and abuser might use "You made me do this".

This doesn't mean discussion can't be had about the what the Democratic Party can do better. I am talking about how blame is being assigned somehow wholesale, and social media is being used to do it with this type of language.

I think you're right @ArabellaScott. I won't vote for Reform, but I might well spoil my ballot again if no left wing party in my constituency stands up for women's rights, which is a lost vote against Reform.

I'd love to be able to vote for any of the parties I have in the past (Labour, Lib Dem, Green, or independent - despite having been a Labour Party member, I'm a pretty floating left wing voter). I just need one left wing party to acknowledge that biological sex is unchangeable and important in some cases. That's all.

I think they'd be pleasantly surprised at the result if they did.

So what do you blame Trump's election on?

Yes. Its a mystery why so many parties remain so wedded to such an unpopular cause, despite the damage it does.to their credibility and vote share.

Because it largely affects women and they are more than happy to tell us to shut up, whilst calling us bigots.

And compared to other similar countries, the Democrats have a bad record on supporting and protecting women.

They have relied on Roe v Wade instead of passing legislation and there is still no guaranteed paid maternity leave - presumably because there were always 'bigger issues', so women can get to the back of the queue and know their place.

I think that at heart, like the Republicans, they view rights as a guarantee of personal freedom - whether to own a gun or choose medical treatment. In the UK I think we understand rights as a way to resolve conflicting claims and needs.

So people are allowed to discuss the failures of the Democratic Party leadership and policies but they cannot point out the inevitable outcome of that party’s decisions if they believe that it lead to that party losing votes and losing power in government? Or is it phrases that people cannot use?