Trump re trans issues / Tate brothers

[Mittens67]

I have read many threads both before and after the US election where posters are so pleased that Trump does not support the trans agenda. Some also saying that this was the most important issue which would and did influence their vote in the UK election.
Do you still feel the same now? Trump has shown his contempt for women throughout his life and career. Now he has bullied Romania into lifting the travel ban on the Tates and flown them into Florida ready to abuse more women and radicalise a new generation of misogynists and rapists.
Any buyer’s remorse?

@ArabellaScott

Can you give a brief precis?

Very briefly: racism. Lack of critical thinking. Russian interference via social media channels. Elon Musk pressure. The late switch from Biden to Harris. Fear of a woman president (misogyny). The odd marriage of evangelism to the far-right.

So everything bar the fact that the Democrats failed their usual core constituents and didn't measure up? The Dems lost this election. Trump didn't win it. But you seem utterly incapable of critical thinking and knowing that Dems have any blame at all.

You genuinely don't think the Dems have any responsibility at all for their loss? ??

The Democrats will keep losing as long as that's what they tell themselves.

Yes, if you keep saying it's everyone else that is stupid, and don't accept any responsibility it will be a long time before you're re-elected. There is a saying (at least in Australia) that the public never get it wrong (regarding elections).

Sure the Democrats are responsible for their loss. But the Republicans are responsible for Trump's win. And they need to take responsibility for that.🤷‍♀️

If you voted for trump. Or any right wing party in another country you know what they represent. You can't cherry pick. You voted for misogneny
And depletion of women's rights you get what you wish

@WillIEverBeOk

So everything bar the fact that the Democrats failed their usual core constituents and didn't measure up? The Dems lost this election. Trump didn't win it. But you seem utterly incapable of critical thinking and knowing that Dems have any blame at all.

You genuinely don't think the Dems have any responsibility at all for their loss? ??

Did you miss where I said "the late switch from Biden to Harris"? Doesn't that imply some responsibility?

I am talking about responsibility for their unpalatable policies. The switch from Biden to Harris is irrelevant. The Dems were unelectable because of their policies. Not just the leader. They would have lost under Biden too. The candidate was irrelevant. I think you're missing the point. It's the policies they need to take responsibility for, such as their misogynistic anti-women policies.

Yes. It is the policies that didn’t inspire the democrats to come out to vote. I would think the distrust in not listening to the wider membership on topics too.

And, of course, the choice of Kamala Harris when she was unpopular. Particularly after the party doubled down for so long that Biden was healthy. That bit of dishonesty must have left a significant lack of trust in the Biden / Harris leadership team. Which built on a sense of distrust that that team was no listening to members or was actively discouraging their elected members of congress to not discuss or support certain issues that the public members were wanting their voices heard on.

All these of these are fully the Democratic party’s leadership team and executive membership’s responsibility.

The OP's original comment was aimed at vote switchers - I would imagine dyed-in-the-wool Republicans have no problems at all with most of what Trump is doing. So the concept of blame has no traction there.

Former Democrat voters or unaffiliated voters who voted for Trump would have done so either because they preferred the Republican offer overall or they had one overwhelming reason to vote for Trump. Since he appears to be doing what he promised/threatened, I would think they are probably still OK with their choice.

In the US, the party which stood for misogyny and the depletion of women's rights was the Democrats.

People are allowed to be right wing. It doesn't make them evil. Personally, I am centre-left oriented and I find the Dems right wing on some issues. But both right and left wing parties can do and have done terrible things.

@WillIEverBeOk

I am talking about responsibility for their unpalatable policies. The switch from Biden to Harris is irrelevant. The Dems were unelectable because of their policies. Not just the leader. They would have lost under Biden too. The candidate was irrelevant. I think you're missing the point. It's the policies they need to take responsibility for, such as their misogynistic anti-women policies.

I certainly don't think the candidate is irrelevant. Particularly in the US, elections can be a cult of personality. Personally, I think it's a major factor in the Democrats' loss. Of course, too, some of their policies weren't as palatable in the current climate as the Republicans' policies.

Do you think the Republicans also have misogynistic, anti-woman policies (to use your terminology)?

Trump didn't campaign on a misogynistic, anti-women platform, whatever he is like as a person.

Racism and misogyny probably played a part in the Democrats' defeat but post-election polling and previous results suggest that they were not decisive factors. Other factors, including opposition to the imposition of GII, swayed the electorate. Obama won - twice - and Hillary Clinton won the popular vote when she ran.

It's good that the Democrats realise they made mistakes around choosing a presidential candidate, but they also need to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

Racism, stupidity, misogyny?

This is still boiling down to 'the other side are the bad guys'.

Politics is far more granular, especially these days. Swing states and key votes are forensically analysed and strategically targeted.

I'd suggest the key difference between winning and losing an election is listening.

“I'd suggest the key difference between winning and losing an election is listening.”

Yes. Listening and adapting on the fly.

I'm not saying the other side are the "bad guys". I'm saying that perhaps they won for the some of these reasons (and I didn't say "stupidity", rather "lack of critical thinking" - entirely a different thing).

In fact, my comment that started this discussion was about people on the Right calling out Democrats for their failings constantly - ie. being the bad guys. So who's doing it really?

I do agree, though, that listening is the key to winning an election.

You didn't mention the economy, nor 'gender' issues - both of which have been cited - convincingly, I'd say - as likely two of the crunch points that caused voters in key states to swing to Trump. In fact, you didn't mention a single policy as a potential reason for people to make the voting choices they did.

Instead, your focus is on judging the personal motivations and qualities of voters, rather than the issues which voters care about/are focussed on/make choices based on their understanding and analysis of.

An election isn't about moral judgement of the voters, or about people's 'identities'. It's about the policies and practise of the candidates.

We could really use getting past elections as some kind of test of the electorate, and instead see them as a test of the candidates/parties/policies.

I'm not saying the other side are the "bad guys". I'm saying that perhaps they won for the some of these reasons (and I didn't say "stupidity", rather "lack of critical thinking" - entirely a different thing).

Some might say there is at least an equal dearth of critical thinking on the Democrat side.

This.

It is the constant moral judgement that shines through. Along with the lack of acknowledgement of the decisions of the leadership team in the Democratic Party.

The reasons were mostly external forces with little consideration for the decisons made by the team themselves which led to the result. Just the switch of candidates.

Although, was there some acknowledgment that the membership of the Democratic Party has a misogyny issue? And that is why the voters that would have voted for that party didn’t vote?

That is a good start. We knew that because they centre male people in female sex based rights. And dismissed the voices of the feminist groups, to celebrate male people who declared they were women. So, yes. A misogyny problem has been there for quite a while.

The problem with candidates or parties that adhere to a strict ideological set of beliefs is that they don't listen. The Democrats came to be associated primarily with DEI and the policies that flow from that - including Defund the Police and the liberalisation of drug laws leading, in part, to the surge in crime, shop-lifting and tent cities in places such as LA and Portland. Also, the imposition of males into female sports categories in the name of 'inclusion' really doesn't sit well with most people. It all seems like ideological dogma gone mad.

The Democrats, like the Labour party here, have also alienated many of their previous workimg class base with their focus on metropolitan identity politics and political correctness.

It all seems like ideological dogma gone mad.

Yes, and it makes them seem unstable and untrustworthy, as did the pretending everything was ok with Biden and then pivoting overnight, demonstrating the lack of honesty and openness in the Democrat campaign team, most significantly of Harris herself.

For all his many faults, many people do admire Trump for his perceived straight talking.

Not sure some of the self appointed political experts on this thread grasp why those things mattered.

I don't think most Trump voters cared about misogyny, but I do think the Democrat stance reduced their credibility.

"OK Trump seems to have this crazy RFK Jr guy and lies all the time, but the Democrats lied about Biden being senile and have those mad ideas about sex. You can't really trust anyone - It's six of one and half a dozen of the other, I'll give Trump a chance".

“Yes, and it makes them seem unstable and untrustworthy, as did the pretending everything was ok with Biden and then pivoting overnight, demonstrating the lack of honesty and openness in the Democrat campaign team, most significantly of Harris herself.”

This is really something that gets ignored. It wasn’t just the change to Harris. It was how it was done.

If a party cannot be honest about it President in situ, and that person being a potential candidate, and presents male people as female people to celebrate women, there is a significant trust issue to be discussed.

It shone a light on the lengths that the party would go to get votes. Which is absolutely fine as that is the nature of elections and politics. But when it is seen as another dishonest act after other dishonest acts, it is hard to see that group of party leadership as being the righteous people they presented themselves as.

Yes I agree with this.

The moral high ground that the Democrats think they occupy is not particularly solid.

You asked for a quick précis? I felt a whole other thread would be better, but no, instead I'm drawn into this. I gave a quick overview of what I thought but it turns out you actually did want a thesis. 🙄