Transman tries to join female and non-binary space

[AnnListersBlister]

This has gone quite mad over social media.

I am not sure what to think of it other than, if transwomen are women then transmen are men? Why would this person want to be there?

And this is a 'female and non-binary space' -the 'non-binary' makes it ambiguous? But from the reactions the transman got, wasn't welcome, shunned, seems primarily female, a 'safe space'?

I am sorry that I cannot upload the file, only the TikTok link.

www.tiktok.com/@papasmurf9059/video/7474605736216087830?_t=ZN-8uBP9BayAg2&_r=1

I just mean in that exact scenario. I'm in a female only space,'know' I'm safe, and then there's a man. It might not actually be a man, but my brain knows what men like. Butch women, I can identify immediately. It's the beard for me personally.

there's something really poetic about any sentence that starts with, 'so I was at a burlesque event in Pontypridd and...'.

Sorry no I didn't mean that. I agree they're women, adult human females. One can't change one's sex, however from the trans ideology stance, transwomen are women and transmen are men. So why would a transman want to go to a female only meet up. They've decided they're a man.

I'm over simplifying and I totally understand about the facts such as they now have no space for themselves having transitioned.

This is what I mean. They've rejected womanhood effectively. But then want to be in the very spaces they've effectively shunned in favour of wanting to be a man.

this

The issue is biology. A transman who exercised normal adult social skills would find herself accepted, probably welcomed (group traditions vary).

A person whose appearance signals how much she despises women, and the lengths she will go to to not even look like one (on a superficial level) may not be regarded as the most likeable, because none of us relish being despised for our sex.

Presentation is part of our social skill set. I look scruffy, but I am clean and non-smelly. Two of our local transwomen wear stuff that might be suitable for an extrovert woman, but stink of BO and skunk and stale alcohol and unwashed clothes. It has to be a choice, and it isn't attractive.

Don't show people something intended to be off-putting and then throw a hissy fit when they're put off.

It does.
In fact, the whole thing sounds very cleverly scripted just to demonstrate the pathetic silliness of it all. If I didn’t know better, I’d think it was parody.

I don't understand thus at all.

If they're a transman wouldn't they be trying to join a mens walking group?

I reckon the walking group dodged a bullet there.

It's really sad that these people alienate themselves from society so much and then get upset that they're unable to integrate normally :(

I think women often overestimate how well transmen pass as male. They really don't. The beards do all the heavy lifting, and men sense that they're not male even if they can't immediately put their finger on it.

But even beyond that, they can't connect with men as men because they have no idea how male friendships work. Few women do. Their female socialisation is something they can't get past any more than their female biology.

That's the hinterland that pp have mentioned. I feel sorry for them being isolated, and obviously female friendships are what they need, but I wouldn't blame anyone for saying "this person is far too high maintenance to bother with".

I do agree with this.
I also dated a butch female until recently and she was mistaken for a man in all contexts by both sexes however women more so than men.

A lot of trans people find themselves in a weird in-between stage, where they don't identify with certain narrow stereotypes of their sex (not too far removed from the jocks and girly girls of American high school movies) but actually do behave in a fairly sex-typical way and often have interests, often of a nerdier variety, that generally appeal much more to people of their own sex. If they actually try spending time with the opposite sex they end up feeling horribly out of place, and actually get on better with people of their own sex with whom they share outlooks and interests.

People who from an early age have known they are into things strongly associated with the opposite sex tend just to accept it as a quirk of their personality and don't feel the urge to re-identify.

On the topic of men in toilets: if you're a repeat victim of male violence, two major factors in assessing your safety around a man are: (1) is he acting weirdly?, (2) how easy is will it be to escape or get help if he turns nasty? A man in a woman's toilet counts as both very weird and particularly difficult to escape from.

A lot of trans people find themselves in a weird in-between stage, where they don't identify with certain narrow stereotypes of their sex (not too far removed from the jocks and girly girls of American high school movies) but actually do behave in a fairly sex-typical way and often have interests, often of a nerdier variety, that generally appeal much more to people of their own sex. If they actually try spending time with the opposite sex they end up feeling horribly out of place, and actually get on better with people of their own sex with whom they share outlooks and interests.

There's the comic artist ND Stevenson, who used to be known as Noelle but then became Nate (he/him) and seems to have settled on just the initials.

Stevenson has a very distinctive art style. At the risk of stereotyping, it's an extremely girly style. No male comics fan will look at a piece of Stevenson art and say "this was drawn by a man".

I can't help but feel that our (still now albeit better) strictly defined gender roles have been something of a driving force behind the trans movement-illustrated in some very good replies here 'more female interests' for example, as well as having a direct link with ASD.

I posted about this recently, because I am in an embroidery group on Facebook where someone recently posted something along the lines of, "Can we please make an effort not to say things like, hey ladies, because not everyone in this group is a woman" and literally every single person who commented saying, "Yes! Thank you! I'm not a woman!" was a trans man or female non binary person.

Getting "I'm the only gay in the village" vibes there.

I have but I realised pretty sharpish. As have one or two males I've encountered,massive embarrassment on their part.

I often wonder why these people seem to have no self awareness?

Do they not analyse their own behaviour at all and try to fathom how others perceive them? Is it narcissistic by nature to be trans?

I imagine there’s a fairly major correlation, yes.

Women who think they are men have as little understanding of men as men who think they are women have of women. It’s quite staggering.

It’s a sort of sex blindness.

I have too - just once. Mercifully empty!

ASD link too-ASD symptom can be a lack of self awareness.

I went in the wrong loo once at a train station, felt very guilty about it as two young boys were in there.

There's a guy on BookTube who did a video on how male novelists can be terrible at writing women. We can all think of examples. He then did a companion piece on how women novelists fail when writing men.

A lot of that is romance authors creating impossibly perfect love interests for their heroine. He works a strenuous manual job but he always smells of fresh cedar. (Or, more absurdly, a YA book where a teenage boy is mentioned as smelling good.) He's got genius level emotional intelligence. He's monogamous to the point of not even looking at another woman.

But another key point is that, in general, women really suck at writing realistic male friendships. (He didn't go into this, but there's also the slash fic written by straight women that's supposedly about gay male relationships but bears no earthly resemblance to gay male sexuality)

I think a certain degree of sex blindness is natural. What's staggering is that people who think they are the opposite sex seem to have more sex blindness than anyone else.