Transman tries to join female and non-binary space

[AnnListersBlister]

This has gone quite mad over social media.

I am not sure what to think of it other than, if transwomen are women then transmen are men? Why would this person want to be there?

And this is a 'female and non-binary space' -the 'non-binary' makes it ambiguous? But from the reactions the transman got, wasn't welcome, shunned, seems primarily female, a 'safe space'?

I am sorry that I cannot upload the file, only the TikTok link.

www.tiktok.com/@papasmurf9059/video/7474605736216087830?_t=ZN-8uBP9BayAg2&_r=1

"This is someone who does not have the capacity to understand that you need to go up to people to tell them who you are and why you are at a group, and to start a conversation.. (She has autism in case you have not followed the thread)."

I appreciate your sensitive posts, but just a reminder that many autistic people absolutely have the capacity to understand this, and successfully navigate this rather basic part of socialising on a daily basis. (Source: am autistic.)

Why are you assuming what level of capacity she had?
Autistic people aren’t actually stupid.

I sympathise with her social struggles but FFS she was told she was welcome, she decided not to speak to them, they didn't speak to a stranger they passed while they were walking and apparently this means they have rejected her 🤦‍♀️

I'm too old for this shit

This is just a variation on the "school gate mums are all cliquey bitches" threads. Person (irrespective of sex) turns up at location, expects everyone else to proactively notice them and immediately rush over to greet them and be their bestest friend, and if that doesn't happen, they are being deliberately excluded. The concept that - you know - you might have to actually APPROACH people and say "Hi, I'm X, I met so and so in a pub last night and she said to come along" is totally alien to these people.

There is a website for a person with the same name. From a brief read they appear to be ex lesbian, autistic, polyamorous, pan sexual, walked away from family (due to misgendering) etc.

Um, because she didn't do that and clearly did not understand that that is why no-one was speaking to her? All of this is revealed in her own words in her own video.

I was not making any assumptions at all but going on her own story in her own words.

I appreciate your sensitive posts, but just a reminder that many autistic people absolutely have the capacity to understand this, and successfully navigate this rather basic part of socialising on a daily basis @NotISaidTheCat
I understand that, but I am talking about this person and how she behaved, by her own account.

Well, sure, she is possibly a bit thick, (definitely, actually), but you made it sound as though it’s her autism that would have prevented her understanding.

But a man in the women’s toilets is not offering a normal social interaction. He’s intruding in a place where he’s not meant to be. That is a potential threat, whether he suffers from the delusion that he’s female, or is a sex predator, or just wants to show his contempt for women’s rights.

Finding a man by a small restaurant’s shared washbasins is not the same situation.

I’m not scared of spiders, and I am not delicate or histrionic. But having been both harassed and attacked by men I now have a healthily strong self-preservation instinct.

I thought this was a young (early 20s or under) person. Learning they are much older than that reduces my sympathy level a lot. We all have to lie in the bed we made. Sometimes we need to strip it back to the mattress and re-make it. Our job, no-one else's.

What a load of navel gazing wank. If this individual wants to opt out of womanhood then why the fuck do they need to attend a women’s hiking group? All the faux innocent “i watched their social media for a year and a half and didn’t see anyone like me”… mate its a fucking women’s group! You want to find people that look like you, form a transman hiking group yourself.

Its like they cant grasp that by positioning themselves in this in between world they don’t really fit into any of the boxes anymore. If you want to be a fucking man, go and try your luck there and see if they embrace you as one of their own. Probably not, but at least you probably won’t make them feel on edge etc. Having someone loitering around looking blokey and uncomfortable isn't really going to make most women go “oh great, the women’s hiking group I joined has someone who seems like they might be hard work, I should get to know them”

That’s nice for you, but we’re not all the same are we?

Absolutely this. Plus she has been told repeatedly, that anyone who doesn’t immediately embrace her ‘authentic self’ is a bigot and a transphobe, and that is why she’s so upset.

Yep and the further problem is that people know that's her victim, trigger happy, unhealthy mindset (and if they didn't before they do after that tiktok video).

Whilst they may have sympathy for her having been groomed into such an unhealthy mindset, most people aren't that excited to get to know anyone so keen to report them to the thought police for literally any normal thing. It's not pleasant, it's not something most people would volunteer for. More and more people will be aware of this as the sunlight pours in.

What exactly does anyone get out of befriending her?

This insidious ideology simply doesn’t work, for anyone.

Boggling at the notion of a man “minding his own business” in the ladies’s loo, and us women supposed to just assume he misread the sign and blithely carry on.
Has any woman ever misread the sign and wandered into the gents?

Late thirties I think. Transitioned a few years ago. A PP Said would be hard work to be friends with and I do tend to agree there, I'd be scared of opening my mouth in case I said something wrong or offensive, afraid that if I for example walked slightly ahead while out, I'd be accused of not being exclusive. I've had people in my life very loosely who are very easily offended and it is quite exhausting.

Cor blimey.

That one's absolutely hunting down opportunities to feel offended and play the victim.

I went to an event, stood nearby but said not a word to anyone. No one talked to me! And I didn't end up taking part in the event because I walked off before it started, still without a word to anyone.

They clearly hate me, they must be transphobic, boo hoo, wail etc.

I just do t have the patience for this shit at all.

"I've done absolutely everything I can possibly do to make people think I'm a man. I rocked up unannounced to a Women and non-binary event, didn't talk to anyone or introduce myself, I just sort of loitered around being a bit odd. No one psychically figured out that I identify as non-binary , possibly because I've done everything I can to make myself look like a man, but they should have fucking guessed anyway (although let's be honest if they'd have guessed I'd have probably had a tantrum because they dared to assume my gender) and no one came up and introduced themselves to the odd looking (clearly female) bloke to invite me to join their hike. So instead I was forced to wander about in the rain, going the wrong way on the trail, for some unfathomable reason (probably to keep their attention centred on me), while feeling sad and now I've made a video about it.'

Find a quiet room, turn off the internet, and try to get some perspective on why you think everything should be all about you all the bloody time.

This, it is so fucking boring this selfish main character syndrome that is present in people like this one.
'I was there, didn't say why I was there, speak to anyone or who I was, and everyone else didn't immediately rush and fawn and laud over me and make me the centre of attention!! How evil of them!! Don't they know I am the special one?!

I thought the GC issue was one of biology - now it's one of someone not looking like you'd want a biologically female person to look?

I have done this in the past but realised before I even got through the door, due to the overwhelming stench of male piss 🤮

Me, actually, a couple of times, I go round in a daze sometimes. Though on spotting urinals I walk straight out again.

Oh and I did briefly consider pretending to be a man the other day at a major museum, when YET AGAIN there was a massive queue for the ladies while the men walked straight into their loos. Have the architects who design these places not heard of potty parity, or do they not care?

Yes, I've done it a handful of times, although probably realised my mistake within seconds.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to make the point that I thought men should be in the women's toilets - far from it. It just surprised me that people would immediately be on high alert, but if you have had the very unpleasant experience of being assaulted then that's understandable of course.

I think people are spot on in their analysis.

Adult who hasn't learnt how to introduce themselves to a group and also hasn't learnt that it might take a few times of joining in until they're seen as a member of the group, rather than a newcomer doesn't think to introduce herself to any of the group.

She stands around looking awkward and possibly even unapproachable and people are so busy catching up with their mates and possibly feeling their own varying levels of awkward and relieved to have someone to talk to that they don't take much notice of the funny looking dude loitering uncomfortably.

The dude has adopted a victim hood through the messaging they've taken on and their own lived experience confirms it - they've been told they're likely to be rejected and all that's the filter they place on their experiences.

Having joined in with numerous groups as a newbie I've realised that it takes a particular set of social skills to welcome new people and I think they can be quite rare. Also I've been a long term member of groups when chief welcomer hasn't been there and I've realised that one of the rest of us should step in. It doesn't come easily or naturally but I do my best.

I've taught my kids that sometimes it's best to own your discomfort and that often people can be really helpful if you just say you're new, nervous and don't know anybody, that way people know that you're approachable.

She mentions twice that there wasn't anyone else there who looked like her. As if bearded ladies are ten a penny in South Wales.