NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #13

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the liverstreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but I wouldn't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12

Seems to also forget that he was born a man...

DU I submitted by 23/1 for 24. That's how deadlines work.

Snidey little turd

I would think HR policy (no talking, no meetings) would also preclude them turning up to support her?

What a mess SP is in, and meanwhile, it opens up adverse inferences ("colleagues don't support her) for those who are not familiar with HR processes and policies around suspension.

His memory seems v patchy, doesn't it?

Ah ha - the "I do not recall" cover story just like Paula Vennells

Strange how poor his memory is for certain things .... 🙄

"That's how deadlines work." 😡😡😡
"I presume they phoned..."
where are your wee phone notes now???

DU I don't recall any further advice or what it was. But would categorise advice re BMA far less memorable than the traumatic incident on xmas. Have talked about that with ppl a lot more than talks with BMA.

He would have had a pen and notepad ready to take notes, like most people on a telephone call where important information is imparted. Liar.

Amazing how selectively he forgot to take notes.

He seems very keen to protect his communications with BMA

You also don't forget those types of phonecalls. Liar.

Convenient I would say. Crystal clear when it's convenient and fuzzy like dust bunnies under the bed when it's not convenient.

NC so whatever advice from BMA as reason you were delaying didn't make a sufficient impact

DU Disagree was delaying. Don't remember any advice from BMA.

NC HI. That is the version that admits missing patient and C handing over for you to do obs.

Was SP paid during her suspension period?

Judges normally prefer witnesses to be straightforward and respectful. I find it hard to believe his attitude is going down well with the judge and panel.

Or maybe the advice wasn't what he wanted to hear?

Not just you, Critical. See also his patronising Wonderful in response to NC.

DU yes but also omits info re xmas. ED said I could provide evidence re background in IX. [reads] So I gave her just the incident.

NC We see ED saying to commence IX it's sufficient to give initial incident and can give IX background later. Let me get started.

Anyone know who "RR" is at the BMA?

At least most of us got to see him on the stand so we know how he sounds when he's saying his pithy little that's how it works comments

Surely he has a professional responsibility to report dangerous incidents immediately? And a precise date and time would be fundamental to that complaint?

Can evidence be requested from the BMA at this stage or is it too late in the proceedings? Surely they have a record of conversations with DU.

It seems rather unlikely not to have any recollection of advice even if it was, for example, just some minor suggestions.

Interesting comments in an article linked from that Reddit:
https://tacc.org.uk/2025/02/10/nhs-fife-a-step-in-the-plan/

(The headline peaked my interest - but it seems that The Plan is one being made by Terf's rather than Trans)

It is deeply disheartening that Dr Beth Upton can be referred to without, shamefully what has become, the privilege of anonymity.

SexMatters saw this, in what would be a morally just society, open-and-shut tribunal, as fuel to their goal of inducing an environment of fearful compliance with non-existent legislation

Forstaters submitted written evidence wasn’t treated as evidential.

propaganda machine otherwise known as British legacy media

At least we can agree on one of those points!

I wasn't aware that MF's written submission was rejected as evidence?

If NHS Fife followed policy yes