NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #13

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the liverstreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but I wouldn't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12

NC Accurate?

DU In as much as I was involved - not inv in last para. It's a reasonably accurate summary

NC Did you send a FC to your line manager as result of mtg

DU Don't think so

NC How serious is it if ppl refer to you as he/point out you're a man

Bookmarked that classic thread to enjoy later @RethinkingLife

Continuation thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14

No, he's definitely not a lesbian, regardless of sex/gender of his wife -- coz he's not a woman.

So they excluded that fact that Upton is legally male as well as biologically male from the investigation evidence.

From a confidentiality point of view, that is difficult to justify as all parts of an investigation would be confidential anyway.

If I had to guess I'd say that SP not settling would be much more likely to be due to lack of agreement over an apology from NHS Fife rather than money.

DU Depends on context. I'm not a man. Someone misgendering isn't necessarily a crime. Some colleagues do it by accident.

NC But if colleague say you are a man, don't want you to use CR, q clearly. A police matter?

DU Didn't report. Didn't know if would reach level for police

So he sent a FC about his meeting about a FC?

No bloody wonder the HR person at NH Fife dealing with this went off sick for a prolonged period - what an absolute shitshow

But he IS a woman. All woman. Not a robot =woman.

How does he know they do it by accident?

NC [reads] KS notes - we talked about reporting to police. So you considered it?

DU No, we discussed. You said a police report would be labyrinthine - you wouldn't want to get involved in a long process/scrutiny No, given attitudes to t ppl. Didn't want to-hope we could resolve

Dr Upton, real women don't have to keep asserting that they "are not a man".

Weirdly.

I'm not a man AGAIN!!

And again, yes you are.

Ooh, a police matter? Are we getting into hate crime territory?

"Budge over, wife, there's only room for one set of female pronouns in this marriage and I'm having them."

(I acknowledge that this is completely unfounded speculation on my part.)

NC you are happy it's a fair report by KS c what she learned from you in mtg.

DU She said I have notes of resus incident which I don't. I haven't keep a log of all occasions - not the resus - but log of the other incidents. Reasonably accurate re what I would have shown KS

Did he marry 'them' before or after he decided he was a woman?

Can we have an index of abbreviations it's hurting my brain

WHY doesn't he have notes of resus incident! He noted every bloody blink at other times

Is there a continuation thread yet?

Continuation thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14

This was by DU’s own words a serious incident and they didn’t keep note. However they did keep notes of SP entering the CR and leaving then waiting outside CR.

@Boiledbeetle I think you might know

I would also like to know why he datixed the incident in the CR but didnt feel it necessary to datix on what are claimed to be (but clearly are not) serious patient safety issues.

Wouldn't that make him liable in an investigation?