NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #13

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the liverstreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but I wouldn't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12

The BMA have lots of complicity in this, and it they who seem to have advised precise wording of FC.

Yes but I think the point that NC is going for is that of contempt of court with regard to hiding first IX if proven to be the case. Process issues around the suspension will all be included in the litigation but the possibility of contempt of court, I think, adds another dimension of wrongdoing.

While he is taking his sweet, sweet time making a statement, SP is suspended with no information and banned from speaking to colleagues where she had worked for years and years.

DU Can't speak to her patience. Direct tone but usual in emails.

NC 6 days after RR email you respond to him - you've had update from nurse in charge of IX who wants statement by 24/1. Could you clarify process.

DU That's what it says in the email. NC BMA email not c wording.

What’s the betting he has a TRA chum at the BMA?

Also - despite many days - notably the days SP gave evidence - with almost problem free public access funnily enough as soon as DU's attempts to control start to unravel we're denied public access.

Even though we know this is coercive control at a societal level with the news media mostly having capitulated entirely with their wrong-sex pronouns for male rapists and murderers. So we absolutely cannot trust what they say.

It's Orwell 'The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.' Or failing that, just make sure no-one gets the evidence of their eyes and ears in the first place by denying open justice.

My hackles rise when I hear DU casually say 'go for it' in response to NC or the judge. Just me?

NC Was there any further advice. DU Not that I could find, no email. He may have phoned me. NC 18/2 email from ED. Following today mtg I require a statement from you re incident. I know you are waiting on BMA advice. She is getting impatient?

He's hiding the fact he had phone communications with the BMA, it seems.

That’s why he’s taking his sweet time. Control.

DU I took it to be.

NC 6 days. Under pressure by ED. Asking to clarify process is delaying?
DU No. He knew I needed to do it by 24/1 - I was asking for advice by that date.

They all seem to be TRA chums at the BMA.

My guess is he had contact with them even before the incidents with SP.

NC 22/1 your email to ED saying you are still waiting for BMA. How did BMA respond to q re clarifying process.

DU If no email from BMA re that, I presume they phoned

DU I have no recollection of how BMA responded,

NC any recollection of what BMA response was

DU no

He is such a slippery, controlling git.

SP was on triage Halloween so she could not possibly be in Resus that date so he had to come up with another hence no date no record no contemporary report after alledged incident happened.

NC You finally give ED your response. Attachment. Something has happened for you to feel ready to send ED doc. You have been stalling while waiting for BMA advice. What was advice from BMA.

DU Don't recall BMA replied or what advice was, re my previous answer.

For example, and I am no expert, if the failure to disclose misleads the tribunal or obstructs justice, it may be escalated as a matter of contempt to a higher court and there is the possibility of prison as a consequence (although unlikely). So even if this tribunal finds in favour of SP, NC could still escalate to contempt of court proceedings where all parties would, no doubt, shit their pants.

He needs to get his memory checked. He seems very forgetful at times

DU If no email from BMA re that, I presume they phoned DU I have no recollection of how BMA responded, NC any recollection of what BMA response was DU no

Liar!

So a month after the Christmas Eve incident DU is still discussing wording with the BMA . refuses to even write a basic statement of the complaint

LIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIARLIAR

DU I submitted by 23/1 for 24. That's how deadlines work. (what an insufferable prick)

NC You gave clear evidence re what happened on xmas eve 2023, inc details of order going to toilet/washing hands etc. But telling tribunal whether you got further advice from BMA or what advice was.

There may have been no further advice and he delayed to make SP suffer/status quo was suspension. Or he may be lying about the advice. I find it hard to believe he’d wait for advice then forget it as irrelevant.

Bolding mine and not from TT

There's more evidence missing here. There was a discussion in the XX yesterday that DU could have requested the BMA records re his email/phone communications with them.

He didn't request them to include in the disclosure and it would take some time to get them so not in time for his XX now.

I really hope all this makes it into NC's closing statement.

He’s claiming he can’t remember whether his BMA trade union rep phoned him or what his BMA trade union rep advised him?

As if.