NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #13

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the liverstreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but I wouldn't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12

NC I'm suggesting implication is to get me started, the minimum is incident and anything else we can get later.

DU But I took her response to my asking 'is it just the incident' to mean just that. Will give background when interviewed. My reading of ED words.

@BTshun yes she was paid

Can they look at his phone records? Call length on x date from BMA number. Establish that there was a call? If 40 minutes long then he is clearly telling porky pies as you would remember a long call.

NC 1 May. RR email that he will reassign your case to Nicola, a senior. They are employment advisers not lawyers.

DU Every email I could find from Ms McIsaac I have provided.

NC As we are resuming hearing later, may be an order for 3rd party disclosure for BMA re docs

“Have talked about that with ppl a lot more than talks with BMA.”

So Upton has repeatedly breached the requirement, under the employer’s internal HR policy, to not discuss the grievance / complaint / investigation with other people?

He really seems to be having a hard time grasping how the majority of people use the English language isn't he. It's like he's translating it into Esperanto then into trans speak then back to English!

NC So please think c answer. Sure you have provided all communications between RR and NM.

DU I am sure I have provided all emails between RR and NM and me. Have searched to best of my ability. Not a computer person.

He might just mean with his legal team, sadly

If it was important enough to take notes on SP
DU Only occasion when she asked me to do something odd.

Then it is certainly odd not to have take note of advice from my trade body regarding a hate incident? Or is that just me?

I wasn't aware that MF's written submission was rejected as evidence?

I'd take anything on that site with a big old pinch of salt.

NC As we are resuming hearing later, may be an order for 3rd party disclosure for BMA re docs

Oh please do!

Robert Ronalds is the name. Sounds like his union rep.

(I'm in the room today but not tweeting. We were very worried that our access wouldn't come through or that there would be further disruption.)

He's repulsive.

We may be getting disclosure from the BMA down the line (so we’ll catch out any lies/truth bending),

Not a computer person. ????? really that's the defence. fuck off

@fanOfBen
he didn't have a legal team then tho? they're talking about Jan 2024 and SP hadn't consulted a solicitor at that point = no legals?

NC As we are resuming hearing later, may be an order for 3rd party disclosure for BMA re docs

May need confirmation from BMA re communications.

TT said earlier it's Robert Ronald.

NC I suggest reason for delay in submitting HI doc you were urgently taking BMA advice re regulatory risk for you in raising serious prof complaints agst SP so long after incident and risk on yourself for making accusations against SP

DU No. Took long cos waiting for BMA

Very difficult to deliver justice with all these nebulous meanings of words. Surely the law has its own definitions?

Thank you @Justabaker - glad you're there!

Obviously @Ereshkigalangcleg
I was hoping that someone here knew the facts so I didn't have to trawl the TT😂

Forgotten how to take notes, confused about how to search emails. What is this performative bewilderment.

You and a room of Scottish Terfs. ❤

DU Wouldn't need BMA advice re making false allegations against a colleague cos I'm not in the habit of making false allegations against a colleague.

J Five minute break

He wants to avoid disclosing the phone communications with BMA - very much.