NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #13

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the liverstreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but I wouldn't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12

The names chosen for T and U in the list.

@Keenovay oh Lordy that will be fun

I agree, it must be pretty awful.

Disgraceful behaviour.

I haven't been able to keep up with all the threads and may have missed it but is there a reason why he is allowed all those support people sitting near him. Is the room so small that they can't be crammed in further away (and not immediately behind NC)?
Sandie didn't have any support people around her.

It amazes me how these types of people play the court for all it's worth and ignore common conventions/rules around behaviour. I seem to remember the person in the Alison Bailey trial who had their support dog and mother also had other people in the room that hadn't been previously agreed to. IIRC Alison's barrister made some comment about being "blindsided" (or similar word) by this new and unexpected development.

They just seem to do as they please and no one pulls them up for it.

Agreed. Technically they don't have the resources unfortunately. bravo to public interest. Very frustrating mind.

It was supposed to start at 9.30am. No update from TT yet.

Can someone tell me why Vic Valentine of the Scottish Trans Network is being called as a witness? Are they giving a general overview about trans people?

I imagine so, like Maya's evidence as founding director of Sex Matters.

As it Tribunal Tweets only today here's a reminder of the abbreviations they use

Abbrevs used:

C/SP - Claimant, Sandy Peggie
NC - Naomi Cunningham, C’s barrister
MG - Margaret Gribbons
C’s solicitor
R/Board - first respondent, Fife Health Board
R2/DU - second respondent, Dr B Upton
JR - Jane Russell, KC, barrister for Rs
AW - Adam Watson, solicitor for Rs

J - Employment Judge Alexander Kemp
ET - Employment Tribunal
P1, P2 - additional panel members
CR - changing room
AE - Accident & emergency department
B&H - Bullying and harassment
SS - Single sex
HR - Human Rights
TW - Transwoman
HI - Hate incident

PCP - provision, criteria or practice is a rule/policy/ practice that can put ppl at a disadvantage based on certain characteristics. The term is used in employment law to assess whether an employer’s actions create different outcomes for employees based on their characteristics.

KS - Kate Searle, DU's supervisor and A&E consultant
ED - Esther Davidson, SP’s line manager
SF - Stuart Fraser, SP’s RCN Rep
AG - Angela Glancy, headed up SP's investigation
IX - investigation
CX or FC - (formal) complaint
DX - disciplinary
FtP - fitness to practice

Wish there was a klaxon sound so I know when it starts. I'm getting no work done here...

Thank you icky

Not starting anytime soon as observers still not started going through security.

Thanks -completely missed that in my skim read!

@prh47bridge I think the big girl pants on back to the women's changing room on 28th December somewhat cements the fact it was harassment.

I predict that will go 'wibble wibble most oppressed dsds hysterectomies trans women get abused the mostest respect just want to pee be kind not a man all the trans sex offenders are just pretending to be trans, you can tell they're just pretending because of the sex offences wibble'

It is such repetitive work so thanks - is there any possibility of opening up a separate thread so the TT posts read fluently? Allowing comments on, for example, this sequence of threads? Otherwise it will be difficult to follow

I imagine they are embarrassed but where does the entitlement and the narcissism come from? This is not a troubled young boy (or most commonly girls). This is an educated, married man, with a fully developed brain.

he should know what is right and wrong. I don’t think you get to be as manipulative as he is without some link to upbringing (accept that may not be true in every single case)

TT have said they are in the remote room so should start soon.

Don't worry, I'll blow my nebulous dog whistle when proceedings start

The meeting minutes about the hate crime incident are interesting. The way the rest of the incidents in that paragraph and the surrounding paragraphs are presented suggests that it's a summary of incidents that were datix-ed in that month.

I believe the process is that senior staff (typically senior nursing managers) review all datix reports and make a summary of what happened, actions to take and changes to make to prevent future incidents.

So, following the Christmas eve datix, there has been some review process and the incident has been included in the overall Health and Safety report.

Interestingly, Isla Bumba the Equality and Human Rights lead, who is one of the witnesses yet to be cross-examined, was at the meeting; but William Nixon the Health and Safety manager who would have oversight of the datix review process (although probably would not have carried out the review personally), is not named as a witness by NHS Fife.

You want a separate thread then go and start one

Wonder which changing rooms Vic Valentine uses with that non-binaried identification.

Get ready - TT are in the room waiting for J

The female one. It's always the female one.

For @ickky to copy TT posts? Not sure I understand.

Same here!