NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

I'm interested in a comment (on the last thread, I think) from a doctor, saying the GMC should get involved as he is clearly lying under oath about his sex.
I've a feeling the GMC are or at least were captured, though, although I'm not very up to speed on it all.
But it's an interesting thought.

That narrows it down (not).

Presumably because that's what she's been told even when she questioned on it. And what she was instructed to say. It doesn't necessarily mean she actually believes it and on the basis of DU's behaviour I'm sure, like most of us, she is rapidly coming to the conclusion that many of her instructions are going to turn out to be flat wrong /lies if not illegal. But if she hasn't actually seen the emails then all she can do is take her client's word.

Actually beginning to feel slightly sorry for JR.

Hospitals policies don't tend to be based on whether or not men have GRCs. It's all self-ID.

Thanks to everyone providing updates. I've been stuck in the waiting room since the initial purge.

I can confirm that at A-level this has not leaked through, and over the past 2-3 years there has been a marked increase in the number of questions about sex-linked biology on exam papers (sex linked inheritance of genetic diseases etc)

Agreed. Unless there is more (and DU says there isn't), the allegations he made don't appear to me to come anywhere near justifying suspension. In all honesty, the only thing they seem to justify is a sharp word with him pointing out that doctors take observations, it is not a good use of his time to be standing around watching a nurse take observations and he needs to grow up and not expect the world to revolve around him.

Oh I thought that was me! I had to double check!

Who is RR - BMA Rep ?

'J if there was an email from DU to RR sending policies etc thought to be relevant do you agree falls within Order'

The GMC allowed Upton to re-register as female under a new name in 2023

How many are still in the waiting room? I was kicked out and then rejoined abbout 45 mins ago and still just have the waiting on host message.

I'm in and can see the room but I still have WFTCHTJ on repeat? Strange

If you'd care to start a separate thread about Sally Hines I'm sure you'll find a lot of people prepared to fill you in about her.

New YouGov polling out today - worth a read.

Public opinion turning against transgender ideology yougov poll www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/5272316-public-opinion-turning-against-transgender-ideology-yougov-poll

Although in the Karen Reade trial in Massachusets the judge (Bev somebody?) was clearly biased against the defendant from the outset and found that the jury was hung on all three charges - meaning there has to be a retrial on all three charges - even though the jury had acquitted her on two of the charges and were only hung on the most minor charge.

Ooh

390+ in lobby

I'm in with no sound

The NHS Fife policies are all on the website. Also bullying and harrassment - which is worth a read. There are loads of processes in the suspension doc - from the discussion last Friday and the timeline it seems pretty clear that the process was not followed. Hence why suddenly they got formal with the IX after SP's solicitor wrote a letter.

And comments from NC last night suggest the whole thing may have been prejudiced and unfair... KS' email landed on 29th Dec. SP was put on Special Leave on 30th Dec. She was left to suspect it was about DU but had to wait nearly 2 months on suspension (?) without really knowing all the details.

There are potentially multiple policy breaches we can work out just from the dates and basic evidence. Goodness knows what will come out once NC starts questioning

They need to get their stories straight

JR - knows they are about wellbeing
bu DU says that they didn't think to look for them on the "other phone" so haven't been disclosed at all

Im in, but with slightly different screen, the upper left quadrant is the tribunal, all the rest is lots of no camera icons

There were nearly 400 the last time I looked.

I'm in but do not have any sound. Might be muted from their end though - fingers crossed.

Oh no - after all that waiting I seem to be in but without video or sound 🙈 Edited - not true - back to WFTCHTJ!

I've set up a separate thread so as not to derail. 🙂

I'm back in after being out since 12pm ish - no sound but perhaps it will come back on whern everyone's in.