NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #12

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11

I think Upton has thrown Searle under the bus, then got in the bus and driven over her, and then reversed over her just to be sure.

And from reading this thread he also seems to have dropped JR and NHS Fife in it by admitting there was an investigation

So if hundreds of observers are noticing and naming that DU is a creepy coercively controlling abuser does that mean that now trumps everything else?

I'm not saying that is the case here. As I've said before, I am unable to watch the hearing so I've no idea if the judge is being extra nice to DU. Even if he was, I wouldn't regard it as a reliable indicator. But I've lost count of the number of people I've dealt with who thought they were going to win their case because the judge was so nice to them when they were giving evidence, only to find that they had lost.

According to Foran DU has said they may have forgotten to check DUs personal email and only sent the correspondence from DUs work email.

JR has said the emails shouldn't be disclosed because they refer to DUs wellbeing and not the investigation.

In the employment tribunals parties have a duty to disclose all of the evidence pertaining to the case whether it is in their favour or not.

He will have been advised this.

It is a conduct issue which means that there is potential for a claim (or a response) to be thrown out. I don't think it will come to that but this isn't good for his credibility either with the tribunal or his (and the employer's) legal team.

A propos judges being decent to a party in a trial, anyone following US cases will know of the Sarah Boone trial. Judge Kraynick presided and he was delightfully decent and resprctful to Ms Boone, over and above really. Till the day of sentencing. He sat down, gave her life without parole, concluded matters and left without saying anything else. It was glorious.

Yes but I think it's clear JR was instructed that there was no previous investigation. They failed to be honest with her. She was so definitive about it and it's her professional integrity on the line. So I think DU is probably trying to control and deceive her as with everyone else.

He probably hasn't forgiven her for the odd misgendering. Just goes to show however much you prostate yourself it's never enough.

Michael Foran's tweets in full here: threadreaderapp.com/thread/1889279458500088246.html

Although it wasted a lot of time, I now think NC's initial questioning of DU was very clever. She let him mansplain on and on about there being no objective reality, how he's really female etc. Now she's bringing in hard evidence and showing him up to be the liar he is.

I'm in!

no one is in the room yet though

How does JR know the missing emails are about wellbeing?

still wftchtj

in the meantime, what will the headline titles be?

WOHOO I'M in - to an empty room but i'll take it!

Ooh! How long were you WFTCHTJ?

Hurrah I've got sound

I would have thought that, to justify suspension, the allegations would have to be serious enough that, if true, which wouldn't be known until fully investigated, patients would be potentially be at risk if the accused were to keep working. So far Upton has not accused SP of anything serious enough to warrant immediate suspension so it will be interesting to find out if he made allegations about patient safety we haven't heard yet.

People coming back into the room now.

Also wanted to especially thank @nauticant for doing all these threads. ❤

Yes it would be worrying if at GCSE level students are being taught incorrect information. Is this just in biology or in other subjects too?

Honestly is completely delulu. She's the one who said there was no such thing as the female skeleton before 1700, isn't she?

Loving the typo 'prostrate' I think you meant

Consent still remains a valid and essential point of healthcare and in the workplace.

I would argue that since NOT believing in gender IS WORIADS, then in cases where someone is not the sex they say they are, then for consent to be valid anyone impacted by the presence / treatment of the opposite sex MUST be explicitly given. It CAN NOT be the default that you go ahead UNLESS there is an objection since SEX itself is a separate catergory to GENDER REASSIGNMENT under the Equality Act.

And this is a male who DOES NOT have a GRC.

Ah - I see someone got there first with the skeleton. I'm still catching up.

Same here

Good spot!