NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

He's tying himself in knots here. He doesn't want to get changed in the mens because it's a question of safety. But other women can't be afforded that right?

He’s shooting himself in the foot here. He doesn’t understand because he is a man.

A 6 foot 2 male hockey player is going to assess risk very differently.

No. All panel members have to take their own notes.

Great Levi's advert example.

He’s really arsey isn’t he.

Proving he’s a woman. It’s well known women go everywhere especially to the loo in groups.

He's posing and it shows

Infuriating

DrU appears to be well rehearsed. And very confident. I seem to recall over-confident witnesses coming a cropper when facing a skilled KC.

I'd like to see Naomi Cunningham ask him on what basis does he say he is not male? Self-ID I think isn't legal in Scotland, so his birth certificate, school certs, medical degree were all awarded to a male.

I agree that the BMA lists him under gender: female, but gender isn't sex.

NC - Talk about how modesty works. Shes talking about the diet coke ad!!!

NC: I want to talk about how modesty works. Bear with me. A very famous ... ad from 1985 ... very famous - commonly shared. What you see is a v beautiful and confident young man stripping off in laundrette and stripping down to pants. Other users watch him. Variety of admiring glances. He sits down to read a newspaper.

Did Dr Upton just raise their voice to NC? Sounded like shouting to me, but but volume is a bit difficult to assess given the poor sound quality (i.e. could just have been the microphone drifting in and out!)

Yes.

Ha talking about that Nick Kamen ad!

NC onto Levis advert where guy takes his jeans off in laundrette

Another man with a woman identity who has no idea that gender critical views are WORIADS. While he’s happily labelling women as transphobic bigots in front of an ET judge. Are his views WORIADS?

So BU is allowed to be afraid of those he identifies as male in the male changing rooms but Sandie isn't?

NC referencing the very beautiful late Nick Kamen's Levi's advertisement 💜

Ooh, to illustrate the difference in modesty attitudes she's describing the Levi's ad in which Nick Kamen strips off in a launderette.

NC: The young man is potrayed as cool, enviable, powerful, confident. Undressing to his pants in a room gives him no discomfort at all. Do you agree that if you remade an ad like that with a woman and she stripped down to her bra and pants to wash her clothes in a room full of strangers, it wouldn't work? She'd look so vulnerable and reckless that you'd think she must be high or have mental health issues? It works for a man, not for a woman?

NC - The guy stripping off is presented as confident with no discomfort at all. Do you agree that if a woman doing this in work would be considered so reckless and vulnerable you'd think she was high on drugs?

NC now explaining a woman wouldn't do that.

BU no, if an advert...

Gorilla playing the drums.

Why is JR answering for witness?