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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

1000 replies

nauticant · 10/02/2025 10:54

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

OP posts:
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6
Cerah · 10/02/2025 11:10

Place marking. Thanks all for the commentary!

ThreeWordHarpy · 10/02/2025 11:10

FannyCann · 10/02/2025 11:09

Thanks for the thread

Any tips for joining from phone?
The observer option doesn't work and the option with camera and audio it says my phone is t allowing access and bumps me out without giving a chance to go into settings to allow, not sure what to change 🤷‍♀️

I ended up dialling into the audio only on my phone.

Shortshriftandlethal · 10/02/2025 11:10

ickky · 10/02/2025 11:09

DU blinking a lot while NC talks.

Is having to think very rapidly...trying to keep coherent...it will soon crumble

CriticalCondition · 10/02/2025 11:10

DU doesn't agree that first risk assessment on a lonely street at night is whether a person is male or female.

Boiledbeetle · 10/02/2025 11:10

JR has butted in

musicalfrog · 10/02/2025 11:10

His barrister doesn't trust him to answer! Jumping in there.

BettyBooper · 10/02/2025 11:11

DU - [arguing about definition of men]
NC - Are you familiar with risk assessment women do when out alone at night. Do you agree that the first item on that RA is male / female?
DU - No. It's not the primary thing I think
JR - Objects to relevance of question

CheekySnake · 10/02/2025 11:11

JR denying that male violence is relevant. WTF.

JasmineAllen · 10/02/2025 11:11

FriedGold32 · 10/02/2025 11:05

If he's not male then how is he trans?

Exactly. A trans woman is by definition male FGS

NorthNorthumberland · 10/02/2025 11:11

Placemarking too. Thanks to all for the commentary.

OvaHere · 10/02/2025 11:11

Boiledbeetle · 10/02/2025 11:06

DU: as a woman I feel more at risk from men

He sounds like someone stuck in cosplay mode. He's learned all the rote answers expected of women whilst ignoring the reality he is male - the same as those other men it's reasonable for him to be afraid of.

ickky · 10/02/2025 11:11

and there is the difference. Women are scared if a man walks behind them at night, it is not only the first thought, it is premediated and ingrained in women.

CheekySnake · 10/02/2025 11:11

Shortshriftandlethal · 10/02/2025 11:10

Is having to think very rapidly...trying to keep coherent...it will soon crumble

you can see how careful he is being not to make a mistake

CarefulN0w · 10/02/2025 11:12

Placemarking. Have requested access, but suspect I'm in a very long queue.

So Upton behaving in a predictable, entitled way then?

ArabellaScott · 10/02/2025 11:12

NC: Pretty clear implication you could expect back up?
'My supervisor assured me I had right to use CR according to my 'gender identity'.
If you have problems with women opposing your presence, the board will back you up
BU: My supervisor is concerned with my wellbeing, also, sorry to be nitpicky, it's not exclusively women who hold transhpobic views.
‘I feel more at risk from men’ – BU
NC: The overwhleming majority of women feel the same way as you do’

BU- yes, I agree. Most women feel more at risk from a man than a woman
NC: For various reasons – men are just obhectively more dangerous than women

BU: statistically men are more likely to commit violence towards women
NC: more likely to commit violence full stop?
BU: that is my understanding.

NC: We all know men are responsible for more violent crimes and vastly more sex crimes
NC: we can park our disagreement
BU: What we mean by men is quite important, if you mean men hwo ID as men, remain conmofrtable with male identity, cis men more likely to be violent sex cirminials.
NC: It’s right, isn’t it, that almost certainly every woman in this room, prob quite a few men in this room, will be familiar of lightning risk assessment, that you do on the night bus, in a lonely, place, you notice someone and do a quick risk assemsent, agree?
BU: Gut instinct, yes
NC: Do you agree that the first item on tha tlist is ‘male or female?
BU: No
NC: Doesn’t it follow that if men are more dangerous, if you’ve established person is female, you’re much less worried than if person is a man
BU that might be true but
JR: Object. I don’t think that follows. All sorts of causes of risk and danger. Not sure we’re in a position how relevant this is.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 10/02/2025 11:12

ickky · 10/02/2025 11:09

DU blinking a lot while NC talks.

Body language-wise...what is that?

lnks · 10/02/2025 11:12

Who are all the people sat around him?

HaroldLeftEye · 10/02/2025 11:12

DU - No. It's not the primary thing I think

Then he's not wimmining right.

ickky · 10/02/2025 11:12

@ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews Looks fairly relaxed.

ArabellaScott · 10/02/2025 11:12

Judge: In a sense similar to the question extent to which there is evidence ... mutter mutter. will allow the question.

anyolddinosaur · 10/02/2025 11:12

Faye's is not the only similar case but this one tends to be overlooked - Sarah Holdman was Harassed and Victimised for supporting Women’s Rights

FeralWoman · 10/02/2025 11:12

I should check my blood pressure. Pretty sure it rises when he speaks.

EasternStandard · 10/02/2025 11:13

She's doing well. Very good line of questioning

GreySkirt · 10/02/2025 11:13

Utterly odious, how NC can keep level and calm. Poor Sandie having to put up with him.

WhatIsCorndogs · 10/02/2025 11:13

How can he tell who a man who identifies as a men is? When he's doing his womanly risk assessment? This is a farce.

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