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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #7

1000 replies

nauticant · 08/02/2025 15:40

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

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37
PrawnofthePatriarchy · 08/02/2025 21:43

Hanging out with you all.

Britinme · 08/02/2025 21:44

Catching up and placemarking!

murasaki · 08/02/2025 21:47

Here for NC's rational, calm and probing questions in the face of specialness on Monday.

GailBlancheViola · 08/02/2025 21:54

murasaki · 08/02/2025 21:47

Here for NC's rational, calm and probing questions in the face of specialness on Monday.

I suspect Dr U is not having a relaxing weekend knowing what is coming on Monday.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/02/2025 21:58

Waitingfordoggo · 08/02/2025 18:55

Yes, I would say that's a form of homophobia- definitely not misogyny. There is a certain type of man (the Tate-followers probably) who really can't cope with men or women experimenting with masculine/feminine styles- not talking about trans people here, but just gender non-conforming people, who really have existed forever, and who most GC feminists wholeheartedly support!

Is it not actually a type of misandry? The men who can't cope know full well it's a man, but they can't cope with a man being feminine. Femininity is for women, and it's fine in them, but men have to be masculine and those that aren't masculine enough are in danger of mockery, sexual assault and sometimes physical assault. A man touching Dr Upton's knee is mocking him and it's likely to be quite an aggressive act.

murasaki · 08/02/2025 22:03

GailBlancheViola · 08/02/2025 21:54

I suspect Dr U is not having a relaxing weekend knowing what is coming on Monday.

Oh dear. What a shame.

RethinkingLife · 08/02/2025 22:09

GailBlancheViola · 08/02/2025 21:54

I suspect Dr U is not having a relaxing weekend knowing what is coming on Monday.

I think that those who are convinced that they are on TRSoH don't experience a moment's self doubt.

I should think DU/BU is sleeping like a babe. A consultant seems to have signed up to be a flying monkey and drama llama in chief (I hope that I'm wrong about this). At a flick of the tongue/electric pen/whatever, an inconvenient older woman who failed to express sufficient handmaiden behaviour was suspended. And NHS Fife (and by extension, NHS Scotland) couldn't be more aligned to DU's needs or manifest greater compassion, kindness and understanding etc. And DU's legal costs as R2 seem to be rolled into those of R1.

And it's not given to many to move round with the C21 equivalent of a Praetorian Guard.

JanesLittleGirl · 08/02/2025 22:11

TWETMIRF · 08/02/2025 19:02

I still can't get over that he waved at her. Who the fuck waves at their colleagues?

In my small world of work, a cute little wave would be be responded to with an elevated middle finger. DU should count themselves very lucky.

Madcats · 08/02/2025 22:13

A few years ago, it was "the cotton ceiling" that enraged me having wandered over to 'Active threads' from something mundane.

I need an early night, but let's keep this topic busy and trending.

Datix logs, or absence of, seem a tiny bit relevant. Maybe they are in the bundle? Hmm..

nocoolnamesleft · 08/02/2025 22:14

AnnaMagnani · 08/02/2025 18:12

@Rightsraptor there's Missing Patient and Resus Room.

Resus Room is he tries to assess a patient quickly before the end of his shift. The patient hasn't had obs done.
Sandie arrives to do the obs and sees him in with the patient already.
Sandie asks him to do the obs.

This is apparently a massive patient safety incident as only nurses do obs.

On a medical website, I have seen comments along the lines of "Welcome to the sisterhood" and that any female doctor has had nursing duties dumped on her many times. So Upton is basically complaining about being treated like a woman. Ironic.

Theuniversalshere1 · 08/02/2025 22:14

Following

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 08/02/2025 22:15

StellaAndCrow · 08/02/2025 18:15

Re: JR calling Maya "Forshatter", I hadn't really connected the dots that she actually knew her well, as she'd been in Maya's original EAT and appeal.

Surely she must have heard her name pronounced correctly hundreds of times?

Makes it even more odd that she consistently called her "Forshatter". I wonder what that was all about?

I think that JR was deliberately mispronouncing Maya's name to get her to correct this. Her doing so would have allowed JR to make a point about how it really matters to people to be called a name (or pronoun) they prefer.

It was a classic pit-trap... but failed because Maya did not fall into it. JR just looked a bit silly!

GailBlancheViola · 08/02/2025 22:15

Possibly, RethinkingLife but I am not so sure as Dr U didn't seem to want to be questioned at all by either side in the case.

In my small world of work, a cute little wave would be be responded to with an elevated middle finger. DU should count themselves very lucky.

I am picturing the wave done by Mr. Collins in the 1995 BBC version of Pride and Prejudice and yes an elevated middle finger would be the perfect response.

Totallymessed · 08/02/2025 22:17

TriesNotToBeCynical · 08/02/2025 21:19

From 18" away and a head taller that's not passive anything - it's wholly aggressive.

I actually think he tried to provoke reactions that he could jot down in his little notebook as instances of "transphobia". SP had displeased him, and he wanted her humiliated and sacked.

RethinkingLife · 08/02/2025 22:21

GailBlancheViola · 08/02/2025 22:15

Possibly, RethinkingLife but I am not so sure as Dr U didn't seem to want to be questioned at all by either side in the case.

In my small world of work, a cute little wave would be be responded to with an elevated middle finger. DU should count themselves very lucky.

I am picturing the wave done by Mr. Collins in the 1995 BBC version of Pride and Prejudice and yes an elevated middle finger would be the perfect response.

This?

GailBlancheViola · 08/02/2025 22:26

That's the one!!!! Funny how you knew exactly which one I was on about. Perhaps an Elizabeth Bennett look would be better than a middle finger on reflection.

murasaki · 08/02/2025 22:32

I do feel sorry for the IT team trying to get stuff together for Monday that they could have done weeks ago, but that's about it. Apart from SP and her family obviously. I hope they're taking some comfort from the funds raised.

Mmmnotsure · 08/02/2025 22:32

Shetlands · 08/02/2025 19:43

He's plucked his eyebrows, shaved his beard, bought a dress, tights and earrings, and calls himself Beth. What more evidence do you need that he's now a woman?

And puts his hair back behind his ear on the side where the judge and panel sit, so they are sure to see he is wearing EARRINGS.

Bannedontherun · 08/02/2025 22:42

Just waded through everything i missed on Friday thanks must go to inky etc for posting links to tribunal twitters, and commentators.

Anyway, i think someone else on the last thread mentioned this in passing.

It is looking to me like DU may have been egged on with all this nonsense by seniors (those who gave him the swipe card to the female changing rooms) and it is they who picked up the complaint, which appears was reframed in the second investigation.

It seems to me if i am reading things correctly that the only way out for DU is to blame the higher uppers for something that snowballed “beyond his control”

After all when at the hearing asked to describe the Xmas incident in the changing rooms he said that SP mentioned female prisoners, nothing else.

And asked to recount patient safety issues he was vague and waffling, nothing concrete that could be deemed to be malpractice.

So for DU he may try and throw NHS under the bus and visa versa.

Which would leave the KC representing them in the shit.

The IMO important thing i would like to add is that when NC demanded that the original disclosure order must be enforced (of e mails etc) she said it was crucial for both sides as the truth could have consequences to the careers of either DU or SP.

I think this was a shot over the bow, she was telling DU tell the truth mate on Monday or your career is fucked.

So he is going to have to say he was a mere pawn, in a political game.

it is open to SP to make a complaint for professional misconduct should she at the very least secure a ruling that disbelieves DU.

I really would not fancy my chances at a game of chess with NC she is swift beyond worship.

MarieDeGournay · 08/02/2025 22:47

'Swift Beyond Worship' Another one for a t-shirt!
My previous suggestion was 'The Baroness has Written a Letter'.😄

Swashbuckled · 08/02/2025 22:52

@Bannedontherun

I enjoyed reading this; I hope you’re right 😊

FallenSloppyDead · 08/02/2025 22:52

@Bannedontherun It is looking to me like DU may have been egged on with all this nonsense by seniors (those who gave him the swipe card to the female changing rooms) and it is they who picked up the complaint, which appears was reframed in the second investigation.

If this case progresses down a path that suggests NHS Fife used DU to pursue their own political agenda, it will be very interesting to see if the trans 'community' finally start to realise that their 'allies' do not give a shiny sh1t about them as individuals and are happy to sacrifice them on the altar of queer theory

murasaki · 08/02/2025 22:57

FallenSloppyDead · 08/02/2025 22:52

@Bannedontherun It is looking to me like DU may have been egged on with all this nonsense by seniors (those who gave him the swipe card to the female changing rooms) and it is they who picked up the complaint, which appears was reframed in the second investigation.

If this case progresses down a path that suggests NHS Fife used DU to pursue their own political agenda, it will be very interesting to see if the trans 'community' finally start to realise that their 'allies' do not give a shiny sh1t about them as individuals and are happy to sacrifice them on the altar of queer theory

Yes, I said on the last thread that I think they are using Dr U as the tool to achieve what they want re SP, and queried why, but i do think he's going under the bus too, and it might make others think about how they are being used.

Bannedontherun · 08/02/2025 22:59

Roll on Monday for check mate!!!!

RethinkingLife · 08/02/2025 23:00

GailBlancheViola · 08/02/2025 22:26

That's the one!!!! Funny how you knew exactly which one I was on about. Perhaps an Elizabeth Bennett look would be better than a middle finger on reflection.

Edited

Dear Datix,

Today, I gave SP a Mr Collins. She returned an Elizabeth Bennett and carried on talking to the person whom she was already addressing.

What ignominy shall I endure next? Will future warm, friendly overtures and invitations to civil interactions in quarters of close proximity be met by a Rhett Butler?

to be continued

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