NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #7

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Don't mention Trump. We'll get derailed😱

One who is deliberately acting in an antagonistic way to try and get a rise out of someone/over signal their manners to make a point. I've seen this in action IRL, and I'm sure you have too.

Generally not since I left school though, it has to be said.

I’d like to know how many other TiMs are employed at the trust and where they get changed.

He's plucked his eyebrows, shaved his beard, bought a dress, tights and earrings, and calls himself Beth. What more evidence do you need that he's now a woman?

I think that although the UK court way to end the TWAW madness is slower and more painful than the instant Trump decree, in the long run it will be more effective. By having a serious legal process examine the assumptions and implications of acting on the TWAW belief, the fallacy is dismantles for so many 'be kind' types. (I accept that there is a hard core who will never be swayed).
The Trump decree could mean that the middle road 'be kind' crew think that the TWAW stance has crumbled because he's a meanie, not because it had no substance.
Thanks for the new thread!

@Rightsraptor

I haven’t had to do a Datix since they went online, but have done a few when they were the same form but in paper version.

The form was massive, and on a very large, numbered, pad that copied the data onto three different coloured sheets to be sent off.

Nobody wanted to do them as they took AGES! When a manager said one needed to be completed, it caused issues as there just wasn’t the time in a clinical day to do it. You’d have to be taken off other duties, if that was even possible.

So they weren’t done lightly. Don’t know if they’ve become shorter. I don’t think they’d be completely anonymously, so could provide useful information.

According to my NHS Trusts policy staff used the facilities aligned to their gender and no GRC is required.

I see every Datix report in the NHS trust I work in. @TriesNotToBeCynical
posted on the last thread that they are,
Particularly used by nurses against doctors who have irritated them - it could be said. Perhaps contentiously

That comment is out of date, I would say the reverse is true now.

I think it was mentioned there are 2 TiMs and 1 TiF at the hospital, may be other departments though.

I heard her say that Dr S's email had prejudged the incident and was highly unusual to be sent to a group (maybe all A&E consultants or doctors) that weren't directly involved.

I haven't been there personally, but I've seen several tweets indicating that there is a gender neutral space that Dr Beth could have used to avoid feeling uncomfortable in the men's changing room.

I think dog has a serious case of indigestion.

Great pecs. And I like a wrap dress. Flatters most people.

Blimey it's been a busy week and I've been slowly catching up with these threads, reading the archived articles and sending some money when I could catch 10 mins. Thanks muchly to all those following and updating. Am delighted that I have free time on Monday so will request observer details and watch as much as possible.

I fully expect the disclosure issues to not be resolved by then BTW. My best guess is that there will be more procedural arguments and that we might get to the DU XX by the afternoon.

I heard her say that Dr S's email had prejudged the incident and was highly unusual to be sent to a group (maybe all A&E consultants or doctors) that weren't directly involved.

I keep wondering if the issue with the email is that KS relayed the reason for the leave - DU's interpretation of the "hate incident" - to the other staff as fact without it having been investigated.

Steadily increasing: £9,832.25

I hope this is a comfort to the family.

I wonder if this is what they called her between themselves in Maya's original tribunal. Also her old colleagues.
So it has sort of become 'natural'

Yes, and Dr. Upton said he was half a metre away from SP at the time. That is very much not friendly behaviour, it's passive aggressive and an attempt at intimidating.

I wonder if this is what they called her between themselves in Maya's original tribunal. Also her old colleagues.
So it has sort of become 'natural

Years ago there was a very creepy sales rep who used to visit a factory that our union represented. He wore a very bad toupee. He was always trying it on with the young receptionists who referred to him as "Mr. Wig" between themselves.

It was only a matter of time before someone thought it was his real name.

https://x.com/sexrealistnews/status/1888144354855838024?t=z3TV5jaNjiKoKSsOB02U5A&s=19

From 18" away and a head taller that's not passive anything - it's wholly aggressive.

I hadn’t realised the waving was from such a short distance, and had just dismissed it as being a bit of a loon gesture.

But, yes, it is very aggressive from such a distance. Likely making a point about wanting recognition. Wonder what his facial expression would have been described as, by someone watching.

From the account he gave, it sounded like SP was looking at and talking with the colleague he had asked to go and fetch SP, while walking towards him. So why he didn't wait until they had finished talking I'm not sure. She wasn't going to reply to anyone saying 'Hi' and waving at her if she was looking at and listening to another person.

Shetlands He's plucked his eyebrows, shaved his beard, bought a dress, tights and earrings, and calls himself Beth.

Was that Lou Reed's first draft, discarded because it didn't scan?

I only went out for a meal and came back to 5 pages in to a new thread. ...